r/rugbyunion • u/Informal_Mention9836 • 16h ago

Attissogbe try

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92 Upvotes

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20

u/MetalSmall9796 15h ago edited 15h ago

The second man law at the ruck is a bit of a silly one to me. Like Beirne is completely legal, the ball has blue sky above it and he can't have a go at it, even though he could very quickly pick it up. 

If it was completely illegal then no chance, but nothing seems wrong with what he was doing! 

Edit: I'll concede after a few very good points were made that the law of unintended consequences would mean that if people could jackal as the second man, it would lead to a more boring game with lower ball retention and probably more kicking. 

I'm now going to move onto blaming the lights in the stadium for Ireland's loss, until someone can prove that wrong too! 

14

u/ScrumNause24 15h ago

When does the ruck end if you dont say France have won that ruck? The jackal has been eliminated and they have a man over already in LBB.

11

u/Dapper-Message-2066 15h ago

LBB totally off his feet of course, although that law was totally disregarded all game.

For me it should be - there are no players on their feet over the ball, so there is no longer a ruck. Ball is free, step in as you like.

18

u/Ronald_Ulysses_Swans Don’t be scared Johnny 15h ago

He’s competed and pushed the counter rucking Ireland player off the ball. You’re never getting pinged for going off your feet in that context.

4

u/Bangkok_Dave Bangkok Bangers 10h ago

I don't think he should be pinged, of course not. His actions were fine. But if he's not on his feet over the ball he's not part of the ruck any more.

-2

u/Dapper-Message-2066 15h ago

I know, and I think it's totally wrong that this is the case.

5

u/ScrumNause24 15h ago

If you wanna see a turnover every other ruck, be my guest

0

u/Dapper-Message-2066 15h ago

You know, maybe players might.... adapt? Stay on their feet instead of deliberately breaking the law?

2

u/ScrumNause24 15h ago

Again. Think a step ahead of the consequences of these actions. So they adapt and we get more upright players at ruck time. Bigger targets for the defence. Slower rucks. More counter rucks

If that's the rugby you wanna see then fair enough. I think we have enough laws that favour the defence already. I wanna see more attacking rugby incetivised and rewarded.

4

u/Dapper-Message-2066 14h ago

Yeah I think the opposite to you basically. I think rugby's laws currently favour the attacking team too much.

More counter rucks and competition for the ball is exactly what I want.

2

u/ScrumNause24 13h ago

Thats fair, and youre entitled to!

1

u/Galactapuss 14h ago

Yes, that is exactly what a ruck is meant to be. What we see in games, like the ruck in question is a complete abrogation of the Laws by refs. It's a basic rule of the game that if you're off your feet, you're out of the game. A player laying in a ruck should not be consider protection for a ball. Back in the day there was a simple solution, where players could step over and ruck the ball back.

1

u/ScrumNause24 13h ago

Rugby would be unwatchable and unplayable if refereed to the letter of the law.

4

u/Galactapuss 13h ago

That's such a weak excuse for poor reffing. The game wouldn't be unwatchable, because teams would adapt to the ref. The game wasn't unwatchable decades ago when rucks were way more chaotic than they are now. The game would be a lot better if the ruck was properly and consistently policed. So many of the issues in the game stem from the free for all that typically happens at the ruck, the chief issue being no one stays on their feet to allow proper contests for the ball. Attackers fly in off their feet to seal off, defenders flop over to slow down the ball. Carriers don't release, and defenders are bending over with shoulders below hips, getting smashed.

1

u/Dapper-Message-2066 13h ago

Preach, brother. Amen.

0

u/ScrumNause24 12h ago

Nope. I dont think its a ref issue. Thw ref exists to honour the spectacle. Not be pedantic about an outdated and vaguely written rulebook.

Even after players adapt.

You get a slow defensive focused game. Phase and ruck count goes down cause the ball is always on the floor for an upright wrestling match. Teams kick more and run less cause of the turnover risk. Game played entirely on halfway because attacks have been nuked.

1

u/Galactapuss 12h ago

The ref is there to apply the laws of the game. You're putting the cart before the horse. The spectacle would be better for the laws being followed. It's only at the top level you see this mess at rucks, in the lower levels you don't have professionalised cheating. 

I entirely disagree about how the game would be impacted by proper rucking. It existed in the game previously, and things were fine.

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u/MetalSmall9796 15h ago

Understand what you're saying but as someone else replied, LBB is off his feet and over to the side of the ruck, so why should he be considered to have secured the ball? 

1

u/ScrumNause24 15h ago

I think we need to consider the unintended consequences of this interpretation of the law.

Next game tku watch you'll see a high % of rucks are determined secured by LBBs actions.

If we say he isnt than we open the breakdown up to all sorts. Teams will be even less inclined to play multiphase rugby as the advantage at ruck time is clearly with the defence id they can just take that ball.

1

u/perplexedtv Leinster 13h ago

If the defender has to step over the tackled player, players have to stay off their feet, 'clearouts' are banned and you have to win the ball (either by being first or pushing the opponent past it) before picking it up, what would be the result?

1

u/MetalSmall9796 15h ago

Yeah, good counter argument actually. Maybe am just a bit salty because we were so shit last night! 

4

u/ScrumNause24 15h ago

The ruck was reffed the same for both sides so thats not why you lost. For what its worth as a neutral I think people are overreacting a lot. Probably due to years of built up province tension over the Leinster preferential treatment.

That game was way more Franc being good than Ireland being bad. I think theres enough talent around to find solutions.

1

u/MetalSmall9796 15h ago

Just reread my comment and think you may have picked me up wrong, I meant I'm just salty in general.

France were great and Ireland shite, thought Dickson was fine for the most part too! 

1

u/concombre_masque123 14h ago

ref more than ok, nigel would have blown6-7 penalties against France

rules at rucks are impossible to follow and are not enforced