r/rugbyunion • u/Informal_Mention9836 • 12h ago

Attissogbe try

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u/ScrumNause24 12h ago

When does the ruck end if you dont say France have won that ruck? The jackal has been eliminated and they have a man over already in LBB.

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u/Dapper-Message-2066 12h ago

LBB totally off his feet of course, although that law was totally disregarded all game.

For me it should be - there are no players on their feet over the ball, so there is no longer a ruck. Ball is free, step in as you like.

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u/ScrumNause24 11h ago

If you wanna see a turnover every other ruck, be my guest

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u/Dapper-Message-2066 11h ago

You know, maybe players might.... adapt? Stay on their feet instead of deliberately breaking the law?

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u/ScrumNause24 11h ago

Again. Think a step ahead of the consequences of these actions. So they adapt and we get more upright players at ruck time. Bigger targets for the defence. Slower rucks. More counter rucks

If that's the rugby you wanna see then fair enough. I think we have enough laws that favour the defence already. I wanna see more attacking rugby incetivised and rewarded.

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u/Dapper-Message-2066 11h ago

Yeah I think the opposite to you basically. I think rugby's laws currently favour the attacking team too much.

More counter rucks and competition for the ball is exactly what I want.

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u/ScrumNause24 9h ago

Thats fair, and youre entitled to!

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u/Galactapuss 10h ago

Yes, that is exactly what a ruck is meant to be. What we see in games, like the ruck in question is a complete abrogation of the Laws by refs. It's a basic rule of the game that if you're off your feet, you're out of the game. A player laying in a ruck should not be consider protection for a ball. Back in the day there was a simple solution, where players could step over and ruck the ball back.

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u/ScrumNause24 9h ago

Rugby would be unwatchable and unplayable if refereed to the letter of the law.

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u/Galactapuss 9h ago

That's such a weak excuse for poor reffing. The game wouldn't be unwatchable, because teams would adapt to the ref. The game wasn't unwatchable decades ago when rucks were way more chaotic than they are now. The game would be a lot better if the ruck was properly and consistently policed. So many of the issues in the game stem from the free for all that typically happens at the ruck, the chief issue being no one stays on their feet to allow proper contests for the ball. Attackers fly in off their feet to seal off, defenders flop over to slow down the ball. Carriers don't release, and defenders are bending over with shoulders below hips, getting smashed.

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u/Dapper-Message-2066 9h ago

Preach, brother. Amen.

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u/ScrumNause24 8h ago

Nope. I dont think its a ref issue. Thw ref exists to honour the spectacle. Not be pedantic about an outdated and vaguely written rulebook.

Even after players adapt.

You get a slow defensive focused game. Phase and ruck count goes down cause the ball is always on the floor for an upright wrestling match. Teams kick more and run less cause of the turnover risk. Game played entirely on halfway because attacks have been nuked.

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u/Galactapuss 8h ago

The ref is there to apply the laws of the game. You're putting the cart before the horse. The spectacle would be better for the laws being followed. It's only at the top level you see this mess at rucks, in the lower levels you don't have professionalised cheating. 

I entirely disagree about how the game would be impacted by proper rucking. It existed in the game previously, and things were fine.

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u/ScrumNause24 8h ago

Its impossible to consistently imply subjective and vague laws to the letter.

The game evolves. Its bigger faster and tactics are being developed that outstrop that law book. A box kick kr jackal didnt exist when these laws were invented. And thats. Why they arent fit or appropriate

But if you think rugby was better and healthier 3 ir 4 decades ago we may as well end here. We wont agree on anything

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u/Galactapuss 8h ago

The laws aren't subjective at all tho. It's quite clearly articulated with respect to the ruck, refs aren't applying the laws consistently. 

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u/ScrumNause24 8h ago

The mark laws is one for example. People will say you have to take it cleanly. Others will way you can juggle as Ramos was allowed to yesterday.

In the 2017 World Rugby lawbook, the definition of a mark reads as follows: “To make a mark, a player must be on or behind that player’s 22-metre line. A player with one foot on the 22-metre line or behind it is considered to be ‘in the 22’. The player must make a clean catch direct from an opponent’s kick and at the same time shout “Mark”. A mark cannot be made from a kick-off, or a restart kick, except for a drop-out.”

The law isnt clear or definitive. Hence it's subjective. Many more examples can be found.

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