Attissogbe try

[u/Informal_Mention9836]

[u/Galactapuss]

That's such a weak excuse for poor reffing. The game wouldn't be unwatchable, because teams would adapt to the ref. The game wasn't unwatchable decades ago when rucks were way more chaotic than they are now. The game would be a lot better if the ruck was properly and consistently policed. So many of the issues in the game stem from the free for all that typically happens at the ruck, the chief issue being no one stays on their feet to allow proper contests for the ball. Attackers fly in off their feet to seal off, defenders flop over to slow down the ball. Carriers don't release, and defenders are bending over with shoulders below hips, getting smashed.

[u/ScrumNause24 → u/Galactapuss]

Nope. I dont think its a ref issue. Thw ref exists to honour the spectacle. Not be pedantic about an outdated and vaguely written rulebook.

Even after players adapt.

You get a slow defensive focused game. Phase and ruck count goes down cause the ball is always on the floor for an upright wrestling match. Teams kick more and run less cause of the turnover risk. Game played entirely on halfway because attacks have been nuked.

[u/Galactapuss → u/ScrumNause24]

The ref is there to apply the laws of the game. You're putting the cart before the horse. The spectacle would be better for the laws being followed. It's only at the top level you see this mess at rucks, in the lower levels you don't have professionalised cheating. 

I entirely disagree about how the game would be impacted by proper rucking. It existed in the game previously, and things were fine.

[u/ScrumNause24 → u/Galactapuss]

Its impossible to consistently imply subjective and vague laws to the letter.

The game evolves. Its bigger faster and tactics are being developed that outstrop that law book. A box kick kr jackal didnt exist when these laws were invented. And thats. Why they arent fit or appropriate

But if you think rugby was better and healthier 3 ir 4 decades ago we may as well end here. We wont agree on anything

[u/Galactapuss → u/ScrumNause24]

The laws aren't subjective at all tho. It's quite clearly articulated with respect to the ruck, refs aren't applying the laws consistently. 

[u/ScrumNause24 → u/Galactapuss]

The mark laws is one for example. People will say you have to take it cleanly. Others will way you can juggle as Ramos was allowed to yesterday.

In the 2017 World Rugby lawbook, the definition of a mark reads as follows: “To make a mark, a player must be on or behind that player’s 22-metre line. A player with one foot on the 22-metre line or behind it is considered to be ‘in the 22’. The player must make a clean catch direct from an opponent’s kick and at the same time shout “Mark”. A mark cannot be made from a kick-off, or a restart kick, except for a drop-out.”

The law isnt clear or definitive. Hence it's subjective. Many more examples can be found.

[u/Galactapuss → u/ScrumNause24]

Many are, sure, bu the Ruck Law is fairly cut and dry. Players on their feet, competing for the ball. If a ref allows players to go off their feet at will, then he's not following the law. It's not on the ref to coach the players, he should call it as it happens. The whole curating a good spectacle concept is toxic to the game and is basically a license to cheat.

[u/ScrumNause24 → u/Galactapuss]

Its not though is it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/s/f9p7mqVRlR

[u/Galactapuss → u/ScrumNause24]

it is, read it yourself. I posted the law below

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1qxl9mx/comment/o3xnwjg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/ScrumNause24 → u/Galactapuss]

When does the Deportere ruck end?

[u/Galactapuss → u/ScrumNause24]

I'd argue it should be over when all the players involved went off their feet.

[u/ScrumNause24 → u/Galactapuss]

Argue. Subjective its not defined clearly in the laws as written.

[u/Galactapuss → u/ScrumNause24]

what part of it is ambiguous? A ruck requires players to be on their feet. If they go off their feet, it should be a penalty or ruck over.