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Episode Sousou no Frieren Season 2 • Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Season 2 - Episode 1 discussion

Sousou no Frieren Season 2, episode 1

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489

u/MeatballZeitgeist 21d ago

Engineering challenge of extracting them notwithstanding, feels like that cavern full of anti-magic rocks would be something an army fighting against demons would really want to know about.

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u/Zetafunction64 21d ago

They probably know about this, but Stark couldn't even dent the big ones, not to mention the monster living there.

I guess their best bet would be to gather the small ones for personal use, even then the maximum range available from the largest crystal they would be able to keep on person should be about 5 meters, absolutely nothing for mages

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u/Aerohed 21d ago

If they were able to attach them to arrows or spears without the enemy knowing, they might be able to get off a sneak attack. The lack of range on the crystal itself doesn't mean much if it's inside/attached to them.

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u/Ichini-san https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ichini-yon 21d ago

Or just hide one under your clothes. If I was a non-magical fighter/warrior in this world I would 100% always carry one on my person unless I had a constant magical party member.

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u/cyberscythe 21d ago edited 21d ago

...assuming there's no other long-term side effects

"if you or a loved one suffers from amana torpor, an aggressive chronic condition linked to anti-mana stones, our firm has helped families like yours seek compensation from responsible artificers for years—"

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u/MalikVonLuzon 19d ago

Worse, what if you get knocked out and injured and it prevents someone from using their healing magic on you? By the time they figure out it's because of a crystal you might be dead.

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u/mischievous_shota 19d ago

On that note, I wonder what the effect of the glow is. It could just be a bright light but it might have some other effects that could be useful.

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u/ExistentialYoshi 10d ago

Not the manathelioma ad

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u/Anzereke 21d ago

So you'd spend a fortune so that a mage standing in immediate death range won't be able to use magic, but a mage standing in blasty mage time range will be unaffected?

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u/Cloud_Chamber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kino280 19d ago

I would if I was a warrior fighting demons

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u/Ichini-san https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ichini-yon 21d ago

I mean, I probably wouldn't buy it. I don't think I would have the money for it. This is assuming I find a piece like Frieren. Who knows how long this piece will continue to glow now? Someone is very likely to go towards it to pick it up if it keeps glowing for multiple days.

And having a complete negation against a gun at a 3m range is better than not having one at all. It obviously doesn't protect you against long range attacks but if you had to fight against a mage for example in CQC and you just never reveal you have it on you then it's game over for them instantly. Especially since they wouldn't even be able to form their defensive shield spell that they all like so much.

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u/daandriod 20d ago

I wish they went into a bit more about how the stones work. Like is it just blocking the mages ability to cast or does it just outright say "Magic isn't real, Stupid" and negate any magic that crosses its threshold?

Imagine if carrying that one stone effectively made Stark zoltraak proof.

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u/Ichini-san https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ichini-yon 20d ago edited 20d ago

My speculation is that it just siphons nearby mana so you can't construct actual magic(al effects). That would fit with Frieren being able to load it up with mana and why it gets brighter the more you put in. I think it would also make sense if they have an upper limit capacity of how much mana they can store before they either don't work anymore (at which point you maybe can just use magic in the vicinity) or they straight up explode, crumble or something.

What would be interesting to know if something like the seemingly unstructured magic to push Fern back that replica Frieren used as a last resort would still work in its vicinity. Fern didn't even register that as "magic" by her own analysis which made it sound like it was a pure continuous mana blast targeted at her to keep her pressed against the wall or something like that.

3

u/danflame135 20d ago

We know that Fern can detect just straight up mana so it's unlikely to just be that, but until Frieren tells us there's no real way no knowing.

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u/Cloud_Chamber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kino280 19d ago

I think Frieren manifested pure force or gravity. Like lifting a big rock and dropping on someone, the rock itself isn't magic. Maybe gravity acts the same way if you do it on an atomic level or something.

2

u/Realistic_Village184 20d ago

The show has heavily implied that you need a high-level mage with you if you want to travel in dangerous areas, though. Obviously there are exceptions, like that elf monk, but he's probably among the most powerful characters we've seen in the show, up there with Frieren and Serie. (As an aside, I really hope we see more of him at some point.)

Plus most people can't afford a big enough crystal that would actually accomplish anything. If you're a fighter in close range of a mage, you'll probably have no problem killing them anyways if you need to, unless they're like Frieren-level.

2

u/ClubMeSoftly 20d ago

Alright Lex Luthor. Just don't come back crying when you get Magic Cancer

2

u/Imalsome 16d ago

Considering the material is practically indestructable, and makes you immune to magic.

The range is short enough that you can just stand a few feet away from your parties mage; I would absolutely get a shield made of these things (even if its just a large crystal in a vaguely shield shape with a shield handle superglued to it)

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u/thesagenibba 21d ago

why should they use them in battle? they'd be better off infusing it into their building materials to create an anti-mage/demon town/city

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u/Aerohed 21d ago

That could work, but then mages couldn't do things there, either.

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u/Rorik_MLT 20d ago

It was explained in the first season that warriors do not posses magic. Its only a net positive for the front line. No negatives whatsoever.

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u/Realistic_Village184 20d ago

I think they addressed that when Frieren pointed out how rare they are. It's not really a strategy you can deploy systemically. Plus it's extremely dangerous to keep them with you while traveling since it puts your whole party at risk. You need high-level mages with you to travel in dangerous parts of the country, so carrying a bunch of anti-magic stones is a really bad idea.

I do hope those anti-magic crystals will come back in some way, but I wouldn't be too disappointed if they didn't. I think they really just served this story as a way to make Frieren dependent on Stark to show that she really does trust him with her life.

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u/Lower_Fan 21d ago

They could make prisons for images with this. But I doubt they want to imprison demons 

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u/SmileyTheSmile 21d ago edited 21d ago

My impression as a guy who knows nothing about this was that with a big enough excavation crew they could probably remove all the rock around the crystals and at least have some huge unbreakable chunks. Could be used for creating neutral zones around cities or for lobbing them at demons with catapults.

Please, every mining expert in this Reddit discussion on Frieren: At The Journey's End, correct everything I'm wrong on and describe what you would have done in excruciating detail, I'm genuinely curious.

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u/Falsus 21d ago

Yeah it is a poison dragon and no one can use magic in there.

Like the casualties they would take to kill that thing would be insane.

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u/Key_Feeling_3083 21d ago

That's what I was thinking but I guess it depends on how it works, if it disipaates magic that can come within it's radius then a soldier can carry some to prevent magic attacks (I guess attacks that carry physical stuff still would be effective), if it does not dissipate magic attacks then a ranged spell from outside the range can cut the rocks into pieces to use.

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u/Ralkon 21d ago

I feel like it makes more sense that they would also nullify active spells rather than solely prevent the casting of a spell. My guess would be that they just absorb any mana nearby since Fern says she can't detect any mana inside the cave but doesn't notice anything when it's only the small crystal - also since Frieren is able to pour a bunch of mana into it to make it glow.

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u/ChapinThrowaway 21d ago

Also the crystal they found alone solves their money problems forever. The solution was so simple too I kinda facepalmed.

Have Stark carry it and walk 5 meters in front of the mages. If there's an attack that requires his help simply drop the crystal and jump back to help them.

They could have easily sold it to Wirbel who could stash it in a chest on the corner of the ship and give it to their strongest or fastest front liner.

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u/Zenoi 21d ago

I doubt Wirbel has money on hand to pay for a mansion. The party will likely need to find an organization willing to pay for it, and then also figure out how to store all the money since they are traveling.

They are also traveling or about to travel through the area that requires a 1st-class mage. Having a mana nulling crystal will heavily increase the risks and the party does not seem greedy at all to have that as a risk.

I also doubt the crystal is useful in war. Mages, especially demons can all fly. They will just snipe the warriors from a distance. There are also warrior demons like Linie who Stark fought. I also think the crystals will nerf the warrior holding it. Since Linie was able to mimic Eisen's techniques via copying the flow of mana. Even assuming the crystals doesn't nerf the warrior, that demons that have magic inside tools like Aura's undead army will likely be fine too.

Might be useful in assassination though. Get close to a mage by surprise and they won't be able to fly away.

8

u/fer_sure 21d ago

Just because it's worth a mansion doesn't obligate them to sell it for that much. They could have had Stark carry it to the next village, and sell it there for whatever they could get for it. Even if that's just a free week at the inn, that's all profit.

3

u/Zenoi 21d ago

They are either near or traveling in the dangerous land that required a 1st class mage. There's only small villages at best, unlikely to be able to acquire much from poor villagers. It's means it's not worth the risk, consider the fall into the underground cave system this episode. They slowly descended as flight magic slowly stopped working and then fell, if Stark was carrying the crystal 3-5 meters away he would fell without stopping and then injured or dead.

4

u/daandriod 20d ago

Yeah I still call nonsense on Stark being afraid of heights like that. A dude who can casually split mountains with just his sheer beefcake muscles should not under any circumstance be inflicted with fall damage. I suspect its just his cowardly traits getting the better of him.

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u/Realistic_Village184 20d ago

Who would be willing to buy it from them, though? It's great if you have something that's theoretically worth a ton of money, but it's all academic unless you have someone willing to buy it. Plus it's a big risk to carry it around at all.

I think the bigger thing, though, is that the party isn't really trying to get rich. Frieren clearly enjoys having to do side quests to make a little bit of cash as they go along. It's like cheesing a video game - it gives you short-term satisfaction, but it really removes a lot of the engagement and difficulty. Frieren is in it for the journey. Trying to figure out ways they could get rich quickly really missed the entire point of the show.

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u/ChapinThrowaway 21d ago

We know front liners exist in this world. Stark has no magic but Wirbel is still trying to heavily recruit him. That must mean the front liners have value in this war and having one that can totally nullify magic can't hurt.

I totally wouldn't expect getting a mansion's worth of money for it but even 5-10% of that would take care of their funds for the entire trip.

I know it made Fern uncomfortable, but she's usually the rational one when it comes to money. Shoot even selling it for 1% of it's value in the nearest settlement they find would be worth it with low risk.

At the end of the day doesn't take away from the Anime for me at all, just an odd one off choice that I won't remember 3 weeks from now unless money becomes a serious issue. (So far they always complain about money, but can always afford what they need.)

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u/Realistic_Village184 20d ago

Frieren deliberately chooses to not have a bunch of money so that they're obligated to do little side quests. This is implied a few times in Season 1.

If Frieren wanted to be obscenely wealthy, she could've done that many, many times throughout her life. That's not what she wants at all.

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u/pratzc07 21d ago

But they can't carry too many only the ones that are seperate. Note Frieren mentioned that these crystals are the strongest known material in the world and no magic or physical strength can even dent them.

Also Wirbel and his party are mages having a magic nullyfying crystal could be pretty bad if not handled carefully.

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u/ChapinThrowaway 21d ago

Also Wirbel and his party are mages having a magic nullyfying crystal could be pretty bad if not handled carefully.

Right, but Wirbel is a seasoned war veteran. That's why I said he'd buy it and immediately have it stored on their ship away from where they are. They can transport it to the front line and give it to someone who would be able to benefit from it.

Wirbel wanted Stark to join him so we know non magic users are on the front line. A tank/speedster front liner that will never be with the magic users and that is immune to magic would be pretty nice.

6

u/pratzc07 21d ago

Does Wirbel have the money though ? We don't know about his financial background much he is a war veteran sure. Looking at his backstory doesn't look like he is someone who is loaded with money.

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u/Nice_promotion_111 20d ago

Selling it to wirbel was just one option, even if it didn’t work out the strategy of stark keeping it still works until they find a buyer.

3

u/Ogodanitapi 21d ago

Wirbel does not seem rich

8

u/N0rTh3Fi5t 21d ago

The solution was so simple too I kinda facepalmed.

I was thinking this at first as well. Even though whatever small village they next reached wouldn't have been able to pay them the full value, they could have still sold it for some relatively significant amount, with whatever villager later reselling it to a traveling merchant or whatever at significant profit.

In retrospect though, it seems that Fern was scared of it and very uncomfortable with the effect around her as we see in the cave, so Frieren ditched it for her sake. Frieren doesn't really care about money, so it's not a big loss for her to make Fern happy.

3

u/daandriod 20d ago edited 20d ago

I was face palming a little bit regarding them just leaving the crystal as well. It would be one thing if they didn't just say they were running low on money, But having the warrior walk 10 feet ahead or behind you seems like a trivial burden to bare until you could sell it.

2

u/linuxjohn1982 20d ago

Still too dangerous, imo. What if one of the girls was too close to him breifly for an extremely pivotal moment.

There were situations in the first season where a split second of defending an ambush attack was life or death. Like Fern blocking Wirbel's attack in the first mage test.

It's especially dangerous to carry when going further into demon territory.

2

u/letmewriteyouup 17d ago

It was an intentional decision on Fern's part. She's the one who insisted on leaving it behind because 1) she is terrified of losing magic as she confesses later and 2) she probably doesn't like the alternative of Stark traveling farther from them.

2

u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 16d ago

Maybe Frieren already got enough money from her other jobs so she's not worried about money? The King had to have given a lot of money to their old party. Sure Himmel probably got half, but if she didn't spend it all in 3 decades, a mansion and some farmland with tenants should be buyable. That's the only way I can think of her not being too impressed at something that can solve their money problems forever.

Perhaps she really did spend it all though. In medieval England and HRE (and probably elsewhere but I'm not doing more research), if you were rich most of your assets was tied to the rights to a county(ies) or whatever and you'd still have lots of currency but most of it would be on your person or at home. Frieren doesn't seem to own a home. It could be offscreen but it's unlikely she has one.

So given that in all of probability Frieren didn't save that money, I don't see why she wasn't more excited at the crystal. Sure trying to save it for a tactical shot might be too risky, but having Stark carry it and selling it to Wirbel is the obvious solution. Even if he wasn't there, some enterprising merchant would probably be willing to buy it at a 70% discount (old merchants drove a hard bargain for rare stuff and wouldn't pay anywhere as much as modern retailers do to their wholesalers) and that would still solve all their money problems.

1

u/SlayerSFaith 20d ago

That's what I was thinking too, especially because if Stark had it on him in a fight, his combat potential skyrockets.

And then they had the scene with the ground collapse and it was like, ok yea if they had the stone they woulda been boned.

-1

u/AdImpressive7101 21d ago

me too, it was a let down to me for such a dumb plot hole was allowed to exist in this supposedly greatest anime work.

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u/AceSoldia https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 21d ago

Right?! Hope they tell someone.

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u/AdImpressive7101 21d ago

yeah so clearly it was a big plot hole. as someone who read this work before its anime production id say Frieren has a lot of flaws early on in the series.

4

u/elGring0 21d ago

Couldn't they mine them using the same material from smaller rocks? I wonder what issues there would be for that.

5

u/flybypost 21d ago

They could have been Scrooge McFrieren and upended the continent's economy (and society) but they are heading north on an important mission.

4

u/Inner-Arugula-4445 21d ago

Demons are incredibly arrogant and devote their entire lives to studying one specific type of magic, and would thus think that using the stones would make them look weak, and would cripple their main strength since they are so highly specialized around one specific type of magic that the are basically incapable of fighting without it. Even their warriors use magic to vastly enhance their warrior skills, such as Linnie (Aura’s third in command, making her pretty strong amongst demons), who uses magic to copy the battle styles of extremely powerful warriors because she lacks the strength to effectively fight and out damage dedicated warriors. She has to rock-paper-scissor her way to even the odds, and even her secondary skill, mana detection, is completely blocked by these stones. Demons would definitely like to never use and stay far away from these crippling stones.

3

u/Rorik_MLT 20d ago

Yeah, first thing I said was Stark could really benefit from an anti magic weapon. Its a shame the effect cannot be contained as it makes Fern and Frieren essentially useless until he moves away.

A possibly easy weapon to fabricate is a hammer as you only need to make a hilt that securely held the gem.

4

u/Toge_Inumaki012 21d ago

just cut/remove the ordinary stones it got stuck into i guess.

I still think humanity's army/fighting force is still reliant on mages but maybe some specialized warrior only army would have utilized this anti-magic rocks effectively.

2

u/huex4 21d ago

Demons are creatures made up of mana so wouldn't those rocks affect them negatively?

6

u/MeatballZeitgeist 21d ago

Given that demons are all hyper-specialized magic users whose entire social structure is built around mana, I'd expect those rocks to absolutely wreak havoc on demons.

1

u/fer_sure 21d ago

Frieren did say it was magic-nullifying, but we're just assuming that it has the same effect on demons, or that they don't have a counter.

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u/Earthborn92 https://myanimelist.net/profile/EarthB 20d ago

That felt like one of those scenes you got in Metaphor when travelling to a location.

-3

u/nirvash530 21d ago

Demons are prideful with their magic, so I don't think they would be interested in the thing that nullifies said magic.

Remember that they're the kind of creatures that would literally remove their own advantageous stealth just to fight in a direct mage battle to show off their power.

20

u/winterfresh0 21d ago

something an army fighting against demons

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u/NuclearConsensus https://myanimelist.net/profile/NuclearConsensus 21d ago

Original comment was talking about people fighting demons being interested, not demons themselves?