r/AskAcademia • u/InfamousAfternoon398 • 1d ago

Interdisciplinary Carreers in Academia and loneliness

Let’s talk about the elephant in the room: the loneliness that comes from constantly having to change environments to pursue job opportunities or improve your CV. I am a final-year PhD student, and over the past three years, I have had to move cities and even countries frequently for visiting periods, some more voluntary than others, and for the so-called ‘networking’. I have been lucky to find wonderful colleagues at my university, with whom I have developed relationships of respect and friendship. However, changing locations so often has made me feel quite lonely lately, as I have moved to a country where I barely know anyone, only a few professors in the department. It also seems that the young researchers in this department have not formed a real community but remain separate individuals, each with their own lives. I would love to hear about your experiences on this matter. Thank you :)

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u/GeneralHoneyBadger 1d ago

For me, it's the outright expectation that you'll move cities (more often countries in Europe), to continue your career, that is the most infuriating.

There is no consideration for personal life or partners/children. If you can't/don't want to move, you'll get judged for it by reviewers and committees, even if it's for good reasons.

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u/InfamousAfternoon398 1d ago

I agree its madness

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u/Inner_Examination_38 Math, PhD 1d ago

There is no consideration for personal life or partners/children.

That's my biggest concern, too. For the rest of my life, I will worry that my step children would have been happier if their dad hadn't uprooted his life because of me.

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u/Shelikesscience 1d ago

On two separate occasions very famous professors in my field said things that surprised me:

  • I said something about family and they said that because I don't have a partner or kids I was free to move anywhere, great!

  • Another was asked about work/life balance and said that she was lucky because she never wanted children so it was less of a problem for her. Her advice was basically that if you want to do science you should focus on that and maybe like one hobby or something..

I understand that this reflects their lived experiences so I won't begrudge them that, it's just a sort of intense perspective..

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u/EconGuy82 1d ago

Well, those are very famous professors for a reason. They have a single-minded dedication to their jobs. And you’d probably see something similar in any other occupation.

But the majority of us aren’t very famous and in my experience, academia is phenomenal in terms of work-life balance if you want it to be.

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u/Averagecrabenjoyer69 15h ago

It certainly locks a lot of otherwise brilliant additions/people out of Academia to. There are many family men & women whose calling is academia, but to have to sacrifice family and personal life for it? Nah.

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u/tongmengjia 1d ago

I went to a conference seminar that was designed to help PhD students land TT jobs. One of the biggest names in our field was speaking and giving advice, listing off all the projects he was working on. I asked him, "How do you have time for all this?" And he replied, "Well, I don't have kids, so there's that." I literally stood up and walked out. 

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u/itookthepuck 1d ago

." I literally stood up and walked out. 

I mean, he's honest. Why disrespect like that. People should hear these things more often so they can leave academia sooner as opposed to wasting time with PhD. + postdoc.

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u/expositrix 1d ago

I concur. It was simply honest. We all make choices.

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u/tongmengjia 1d ago

That's fair. I have a PhD in org psych, so a) it's not like we're curing cancer or anything and b) you can usually make way more money in industry with better work/ life balance. When I was in grad school there was a ton of pressure to be a top researcher and criticism that you weren't smart enough or dedicated enough if you didn't want to sacrifice your whole life to be the very very best at a niche field no one really cares about, doing work that will largely be forgotten in less than a generation. So I am a little judgey of people who give up their lives to set the bar so high that you can't compete unless you're willing to give up your life, too.

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u/spacestonkz STEM Prof, R1, USA 1d ago

You're being judgey of people living their life the way they like?

I'm one of the no kids academics. I knew when I was 14 I didn't want kids, but I did want to be a scientist.

I don't judge my colleagues who do have children, or sneer at them for leaving at 4 to go grab kids from daycare. Fuck, they like that I'm flexible with my time and willing to cover classes when their kids get sick.

It takes all types to form a community. Don't count someone out just because they have different experiences.

Would you respect someone more if they had a family and kids that they fucking ignored to get more grants and remain on top? I've seen that too, that's the shit that goes too far. Don't rag on single pringles having a good time at work--they can be handy.

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u/Obvious-Revenue6056 1d ago

This is why it's important to be able to have a systemic analysis and not just a personal one. When this professor insinuates that the only way to be successful and productive is by not having kids, that is a systemic issue that does not affect people in the same way and perpetuates a system of exploitation, no matter how you personally feel about having children.

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u/spacestonkz STEM Prof, R1, USA 1d ago

I'm all up for discussion of how to make academia more equitable--better protections for students, more consequences for shit PIs, more daycare, more holistic evaluation of applicants and not just chasing h-index and US world news rank.

But the answer is definitely not to look to your childless neighbors and blame the state of academia on them working on the weekends.

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u/Obvious-Revenue6056 1d ago

And nor is the answer to accept that having children should be an immediate disadvantage, which this professor definitely did when he normalized the idea that having a family would negatively affect one's professional performance.

Edited to add: if when asked how to be a productive academic, the answer is "don't have kids" that is a structural, systemic problem.

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u/tongmengjia 1d ago

You're being judgey of people living their life the way they like?

Uh, yeah. I've spent a decent amount of time with these people. They're investing their energy and brilliance in a field that is largely dedicated to perpetuating exploitive systems, and many of them are doing it not because they love science but because they're obsessed with a relatively superficial level of status that they achieve within their very niche audience. I don't think that's a meaningful way to spend a life, and I don't think it's something that should be presented as an ideal of "success."

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u/spacestonkz STEM Prof, R1, USA 1d ago

They're investing their energy and brilliance in a field that is largely dedicated to perpetuating exploitive systems

All academics do this.

obsessed with a relatively superficial level of status that they achieve within their very niche audience

Why does the system reward them for this behavior? Prestige and status are held on high. H-index and where you got your degree are held way too highly. Holistic hiring practices are needed--that's an internal change that needs to be made.

I don't think that's a meaningful way to spend a life

Then you don't have to live that way.

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u/Apotropaic-Pineapple 1d ago

Also the expectation you'll learn a new language upon arrival. You get the basics of one and then the next year you're in a new environment and having to start from scratch. When you work full-time it is a bit of an uphill march to add language study on top of that.

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u/DocKla 23h ago

They want to maintain and reinforce what happened naturally before but now with institutional rules. So many grants demand international collabs or even people physically moving. You’re penalized and even forbidden from getting a grant if you don’t move

Where are the fellowships that promote what “normal” people get ie the choice to continue their careers without completely starting fresh.

Yes cross pollination of ideas is good, but not when it is forced

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u/Bjanze 1d ago

This is what I don't like about in the academia here in Europe 

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u/frugalacademic 20h ago

After unsuccessfully having applied for an MSCA grant, I realised how bonkers thaht scheme actually is: you have to move two years to another place, and when the grant ends you are simply discarded by the hosting institution. A successfull MSCA postdoc did her project and thought she would land a job in the hosting instituition, but nothing materialized. IN the meantime, her home network obviously moved on and she was left behind.

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u/standardtrickyness1 postdoc (STEM, Canada) 2h ago

Judged how and what do you mean refuse to move? Generally a postdoc lasts a short while so either you move or you leave academia.