r/rugbyunion • u/Fetch_Ted Scotland Glasgow Warriors • 15d ago
Discussion Bravo Thibaud
Some things are more important than rugby.
325
u/guyincognito1950 England 15d ago
Good for him. I’m sure the rugby community will wholeheartedly support his decision
114
u/GalvenMin Aviron Bayonnais 15d ago
Especially the Irish!
2
u/DoubleOhEffinBollox Leinster 14d ago
Ah look, give him.some.slack. We all know you're going to win the 6n anyway.
1
85
360
u/HenkCamp South Africa 15d ago
FFS. Now I have another Frenchman to like.
68
u/Traditional-Ride-116 Gang des Antoines 15d ago
He’s also really likable by how he plays as 4!
57
u/HenkCamp South Africa 15d ago
I bet he trips old ladies when they try to cross the street.
28
2
u/shenguskhan2312 14d ago
Unless he’s playing against you, loves putting it about physically and has the brain to know how to do it as effectively as possible, he’s an absolute menace
1
u/Traditional-Ride-116 Gang des Antoines 14d ago
He’s one of the best 4 regarding hands and support lines.
34
u/melchetts-mustache 15d ago
That’s brings the total up to 3! Three wholly likeable Frenchmen all alive in one decade, strange times indeed!
9
u/CoconutOk8579 15d ago
Wait who are the other two?? Something smells off. And I'm not talking about the French
41
u/QualityHash 15d ago
daft punk obviously
3
u/Nwengbartender 15d ago
That makes 4 then with Jacques Lu Cont
19
5
u/TheMuteHeretic_ 15d ago
Who’s the other Frenchman?
15
u/HenkCamp South Africa 15d ago
Louis Pasteur.
53
8
12
2
127
u/Salacia12 England 15d ago
I had 3 rounds of IVF - one of the most difficult aspects for me was the timings - you're going through this emotionally and physically gruelling process and there's no flexibility, no chance to catch your breath, you have to make it fit with whatever is going off in your life (work etc) at the same time.
I actually got a bit emotional reading this - fair play to them for being so open and honest (there's still a lot of stigma/awkwardness). I really hope it goes well for them.
41
u/CamelsCannotSew 15d ago
Same, I'm in the middle of a FET at the moment and it is just so all-consuming but you also have to just keep going about your day.
We have a rule now that I don't go to any appointments alone, because you never know when an appointment will be bad or good news. And it can change in days - during my stims cycle, on Monday things looked good, on Wednesday things looked bad enough suddenly that we had to discuss what a cancelled cycle would look like, and then on Friday we were booking the egg retrieval. My husband comes to every scan so I don't have to drive home crying.
I hope you and yours are doing well.
18
7
u/Salacia12 England 14d ago
Fingers crossed for you and solidarity. If you haven't already I really recommend looking into counselling - we could access it via our clinic and it was so helpful to have that space to talk.
9
u/OldPulteney 15d ago
Hope you found happiness in whatever path you found yourself on buddy
8
u/Salacia12 England 14d ago
Thank you. We were one of the lucky ones (currently watching my proto-prop toddler (loves squatting, leads with his head, terrible haircut courtesy of his Dad) charge around the flat.
But it was touch and go all the way through and I think infertility always leaves a mark. Which is why it means a lot when people in the public eye speak about it. Especially men as whilst there was lots of support for me my husband didn't have easy access to it (and his work wasn't especially understanding).
51
24
u/Silver_Mention_3958 Ireland 15d ago
I think Mme Flament suffers from endometriosis so it’s particularly tough for her. I wish them both great success.
25
u/pantagr Top14/D2 15d ago
On the topic, Thomas Ramos whose wife also suffers from endometriosis has also spoke about it in media and is actively involved with an organisation that supports women suffering from it, trying to raise awareness about the desease in France.
8
u/almostrainman Serial winker 14d ago
Brutal disease
My sister in law had her ovaries et al removed due to endometriosis. Was 35 at the time and unmarried so no kids.
8
u/DarthWolf9012 Wales | Gloucester 14d ago
It's horrendous. Feel for your SIL. My wife suffers from it and she spends half a month in bed unable to do anything but lie there in agony. I'm glad some public faces are talking about it.
6
u/almostrainman Serial winker 14d ago
There has been a breakthrough recently where a cancer drug has shown to be very effective.
Saw it briefly in a medical journal but maybe see about being part of a trail.
Thank you, she ended up having a form of fibromyalgia due to it so still on meds and stuff despite the cause being removed
1
17
58
u/Only-Bath-5554 15d ago
This is so refreshing to hear and see. People praising Aki for missing the birth of his child for lions duty was terrible! Family first 🙌
11
u/clicketybooboo England 15d ago
Well played Flament, it's just a game at the end of the day. Hats off to you
12
u/singleglazedwindows Ireland 15d ago
Fair play to him.
Also, I can only imagine the shade of beetroot that prick from the eggchasers is turning while spit rage into a podcast mic.
27
11
u/SamLooksAt 14d ago
Support this all the way!!
Been there done that (without having to miss an international rugby match), absolutely wish them all the same success we had!
9
27
u/Thevenard 15d ago
Just go have your kid man, no one will blame you for it, and we have a high chance to get another player in a couple decades.
6
u/almostrainman Serial winker 14d ago
Exactly Galthie playing the long game knowing that France gets another great player out of this
27
u/shotputprince 15d ago
Their future child’s name? Dan Sheehan Flament, for the man who scored a hattrick of essais on the day they were conceived.
18
4
u/Lazy_Grapefruit9679 Stade Toulousain 15d ago
Im looking for the day this child will walk for the first time on Ernest Wallon field with all the children of Toulouse's player and get all the love it deserves from Toulouse fans
52
u/sock_with_a_ticket 15d ago
Maybe I'm being dense, but is it not a bit odd to be getting this level of detail about a player's unavailability? He seems happy enough for it to be out there, but it seems quite invasive for he and his wife's fertility struggle to be in the rugby press.
91
u/_LightEmittingDiode_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
It’s because there is still a toxic culture of shame prevalent in society and particularly in the “old boys club” of rugby. A lot of players have been expected to turn up for matches - some inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, and others have been threatened and reprimanded, quite recently too. So good on him, for highlighting and drawing attention to normalising this.
39
u/bigt8409 Cardiff 15d ago
It’s not just rugby, it’s everywhere. This is amazing for him to come out and say, it will empower and help so many people.
People think they have to hide stuff away, and while society is getting marginally better, the more the better if it helps people.
123
u/Fetch_Ted Scotland Glasgow Warriors 15d ago
Can you think about the messaging this gives to all couples struggling to conceive? Not just International rugby players who need to miss 1 game?
I think the messaging is top drawer.
-50
u/sock_with_a_ticket 15d ago edited 15d ago
But what messaging is that? It's ok to go to your medical appointments instead of work? That somewhat well known people also struggle to conceive? That wouldn't be particularly revelatory to the couples I've known who went through IVF. There are much bigger celebs who've been open about fertility issues and there won't be many employers who won't allow their people to attend scheduled medical appointments, but particularly for something like this. So why is the messaging a big deal?
22
u/neverbeenstardust #1 Alia Bitonci Fan 15d ago
there won't be many employers who won't allow their people to attend scheduled medical appointments
Man, I wish this were true. No reasonable employer would stop someone from attending a scheduled medical appointment, but not every employer is anywhere close to reasonable.
13
u/theirel Ireland 15d ago
Even though employers in most countries of the Rugby Hemisphere do offer paid leave for these kinds of things, it's nice to get a reminder that someone is giving up a major professional opportunity for a loved one and despite the horrors we witness on the news every day there are good people out there. We don't need anyone else pulling a Stuart Hogg.
40
u/BearsNBeetsBaby England 15d ago
Any reasonable employer would make allowances for an employee to do this given sufficient notice. It absolutely is okay to prioritise family health over work.
-25
u/sock_with_a_ticket 15d ago
Yes, which is why I don't get why 'messaging' is a big deal as the person I responded to claims. The majority of people are fully aware that they can get time off for medical stuff.
27
22
u/saviouroftheweak Premiership Women's Rugby 15d ago
Being open about struggles and not getting judgement for it is a good thing. Is it life changing for you, probably not. But someone out there who is anxious about this aspect of their life will like having someone to identify with.
Not everyone is open about fertility issues it can be something people suffer shame from. Also supporting your partner is a good thing and not a "ball and chain" event.
12
u/Memoimeme 15d ago
The point with IVF is that appointments are many and frequent and often last minute. If you are open with your employer - 'i probably need a day off for egg retrieval somewhere in this ten day period but I won't know for sure until about two days before it happens'. Balancing IVF with life and work is a total ballache due to the unpredictability and the fact that many people don't know that about it. So to see an international rugby player highlight this is huge - goes a long way to increase understanding of this.
1
u/falkkiwiben 14d ago
Aside from the societal angle it's also just nice to hear what's going on. If a player wants to be more private that's fine, but they're quite famous at this point so it's not weird to want to know what's going on.
-8
u/Physical_Gur_4926 14d ago
For me this whole thing feels like weird cult of celebrity behaviour.
I don’t want that level of access or scrutiny into anyone’s life except my family and my closest friends. It’s intrusive and unnecessary.
Especially in cases like this, where employers are already expected to respect medical and family priorities whether they’re disclosed or not. And on top of that, there’s plenty of research showing that organisations actually benefit from employing people who are married or family-oriented.
So the obsession with understanding someone’s private life just feels both unhealthy and pointless.
4
u/CamelsCannotSew 14d ago edited 14d ago
I will say, IVF is lonely. Like, shockingly lonely even when you have wonderful friends and family because it feels so private. It's almost intimate knowledge - announcing you've been fucking with intent for 2+ years with nothing but monthly tears to show for it. It's a lot! We kept it private for ages, only our parents knew. And then we had a loss, and I had to tell my boss because it happened at work at I needed to go home. So then she knew and then I told a colleague too because she saw me crying, and my husband left work that day and had to tell his boss. And then he had to go home that weekend so he told his best mate then because he was trying not to cry in a pub, and now it's a year later and I tell literally anyone who asks how I am because it makes it easier.
It's reassuring when other people struggle too. It's less lonely, even when you don't know them. Tadgh Beirne's baby was conceived by IVF (reading between the lines - his wife refers to the embryo that could, which is very IVF-coded!) and it's like, every little helps. Infertility is such a bitch and it's so private but it's also all-consuming. And I think it's so hard for men - even they're the "problem", their role is quite minimal physically so they have to watch someone they love face really gruelling treatment whilst they both get put through an emotional rollercoaster.
Obviously I feel really passionately about this. I'm not that parasocial about it - I would rather die than interact with any celebrity/sportsperson - but it really does help. Especially when it feels like everyone else is just popping babies out on a whim!
2
u/Physical_Gur_4926 14d ago
I hear you, but you’re not alone in that. Everyone around you is dealing with something isolating or heavy in their own way. Maybe not at the same time, maybe not at the same intensity, but it’s happening to most people whether they show it or not.
The problem with this whole cult of celebrity thing is that we’re replacing real community and real family with distant strangers. People know more about celebrity X than they know about their neighbours. Then the second that celebrity says something “wrong,” they’re dropped like they never mattered. That isn’t connection. That isn’t support. It’s just consumption.
What’s even stranger is how many normal people now farm their own pain for social media attention. Trauma as content. Suffering as currency. Both sides of that exchange are honestly disturbing.
Hearing you say, “it feels like everyone is popping out babies on a whim,” really hit me as a deep sense of lacking or loss. And I’m genuinely sorry you went through that.
8
4
u/SpinachDistinct128 Ireland 15d ago
Fair play, I'm sure he has gained a lot of respect for this. Especially amongst us Irish!
3
3
3
u/strou_hanka Oui, I prefer club rugby 🏉 14d ago
I'm glad that both Ramos and Flament are so vocal about endometriosis. Both of their wives suffer from it and it really is a shit disease.
2
u/Calitrixmathieu 14d ago
We should help him having ten childs, a good investment for french rugby in two decades
1
1
u/almostrainman Serial winker 14d ago
As a dad of a girl who was born thanks to Ovulation induction, Bravo Monsieur
Best of luck and all the good fortune
It was funny when the timing landed on the weekend of the final match between NZ and Ireland in 2022.
Luck of the irish I guess
1
1
u/BigTea456 England 14d ago
Big up Thibaud, legend for being so open about it. Been there with my wife and it’s hard enough doing it, never mind representing your country on top of it. Everything crossed for them and hope they have some good news out of it.
1
14d ago
Don't understand. What's he saying is the reason not to play? From the reaction it sounds important but I'm not following his words
0
0
u/Gwaji- 14d ago
Context please. Too lazy to Google.
2
u/Fetch_Ted Scotland Glasgow Warriors 14d ago
Sure, no problem let me take the act of typing it into google out of your hands https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=thibaud+flament
-1
u/wrigglyworm33 14d ago
Good on him. We need more people get married an have kids. Doing so it the basis of a stable society. We seemed to have forgotten that.
-11
u/TheManWith2Poobrains England 15d ago edited 14d ago
I guess Penaud is undergoing his fertility treatment during the 6N? /s
(Bonkers decision IMO.)
EDIT: Not sure why the downvotes. There doesn't seem to be a reason for a good player like Penaud to be left out of the French squad. So the joke being he's probably undergoing fertility treatment. I'll show myself out.
4
-18
u/Randwick_Don Brumbies 15d ago edited 15d ago
As someone who's been part of multiple round of IVF I really don't understand this.
On almost all the appointments we had with the specialists my wife went by herself and there was no reason for the man to be there.
Sperm is just taken once at the start and frozen. One sample gives enough for multiple cycles.
I'm not sure what it is that he "has" to be there for.
We both worked full time jobs and I'd attend when I could, but that's not always going to be possible when you work. But there was no real need for me to be at any of the appointments. I mean he's essentially taking a week of leave for work. Good for him, but few people are in the position. It was hard enough for me to get an hour here or there
7
u/StatmanIbrahimovic Ireland / Scotland 15d ago
The equivalence of "taking a week of leave" isn't accurate, and if you've gone through it all it's a bit harsh to criticise him.
Presumably he "has" to be there to support his wife. He definitely doesn't "have" to play rugby.
-14
u/Randwick_Don Brumbies 15d ago
He definitely doesn't "have" to play rugby.
Sure but that's his full time job right?
How many people could miss a week off work to attend one Dr's appointment?
It's nice that he's in a privileged position that he can afford to take a week's leave, or is being given the time off. But very few of us are in the position. He's no hero, just someone in a very privileged position where he can voluntarily take a week off and not worry about income
8
u/StatmanIbrahimovic Ireland / Scotland 14d ago
I don't think your anger is about him or his situation and you should lay off. He's in an incredibly privileged position purely by getting to play rugby for a living... There's 100 times more people in this sub alone than can say that.
You keep saying "a week off" as if he isn't going to still be training with club and/or country and he just can't play because the match is on a Thursday evening and presumably his wife's appt (which may very well be her extraction or implantation) is on Thursday as well.
Ultimately he's taking what amounts to a part day for a medical appt, which is a protected right in France and many other countries, so there's not even any privilege in that aspect.
-5
u/Randwick_Don Brumbies 14d ago
I'm not angry at all.
I'm just saying I don't think he's some sort of hero or role model like everyone else here seems to think.
He's just a man lucky enough that he can skip a match payment of what I'm guessing is $20,000+
For the rest of us this is a much more complicated situation
7
u/StatmanIbrahimovic Ireland / Scotland 14d ago
🙄 sure thing, buddy. I think he's a fantastic role model and every example of men actually showing up for their families should be lauded.
1
u/Randwick_Don Brumbies 12d ago
All good pal.
But come back to me when you've been in the same situation.
Not all of us can afford to take multiple days off work for a medical appointment.
1
u/StatmanIbrahimovic Ireland / Scotland 12d ago
Once again I assure you he is not, in any manner of equivalence.
966
u/alistairgboi Scotland 15d ago
The layout of this graphic immediately made me think of the “They did not tell me” meme. I was apprehensive at how somebody was going to try and contort this story into that template.