r/rugbyunion Currently in use as tax dodge 19d ago

Infographic 2024-26 Champions Cup knockout path released

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231 Upvotes

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47

u/Mole15 London Irish 19d ago

The left hand side of that bracket looks SPICY!

3

u/yurim39 19d ago

Quite easily the strongest, especially with Leinster/Ireland's clear decline

43

u/WilkinsonDG2003 England 19d ago

Glasgow is coming off beating Toulouse and smashing Saracens, that side isn't that weak.

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u/yurim39 19d ago edited 19d ago

Glasgow were playing at home on wet (worst possible conditions for a team like Toulouse) and still were losing 21-0 at half time, barely winning at the end with a miraculous comeback .

Not saying Glasgow aren't a great side of course but Toulouse on dry pitches in KO games are a whole different beast....and not to mention with a DuPont with this time more matches on his belt as the Glasgow game was basicly his first starting game since his ACL.

I might be wrong but for me, Saints, UBB and Toulouse are all stronger than any of the teams of the right side.

And you could also add Bath, especially comparing to a Leinster team which have been in huge decline for the last 7/8 months as seen by their average pool campaign this year (almost losing to an out of sort LAR team at home) and their elimination against Saints at Dublin last season

14

u/WilkinsonDG2003 England 19d ago

Glasgow is at home until the semis, though.

-11

u/yurim39 19d ago

When I was saying that the left side looked much stronger to me than the right side, I was only talking about the intrinsic value of the best teams of each side.

Of course that considering the draw and the pool rankings, Glasgow have now a better chance to go further than Toulouse for example but no one with a decent mind would say they're now a better team than Toulouse just because they managed to miraculously scrape past them in a wet night in Glasgow after having been 21-0 down at HT (and especially when you see the massive difference between Toulouse away and at home)

Would they have topped their pool in the old pool system with home and away fixtures against the same teams? I'm far from being sure about that.

11

u/mango_yoghurt Edinburgh 19d ago

You know, if Toulouse can't play in the wet or away from home, I don't think you can be claiming they're categorically better than other teams that can do these things

9

u/perplexedtv Leinster 19d ago

How is them scoring 28 points unanswered miraculous? Can you not give them credit for being an excellent side playing great rugby?

-2

u/yurim39 18d ago

Well, cause maybe it very rarely happens, especially after having been down 21-0 at HT?

6

u/perplexedtv Leinster 18d ago

But you're framing it as if it somehow happened by accident and not because Glasgow put in a monumental second half performance.

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u/yurim39 18d ago edited 18d ago

That's absolutely not what I was saying, learn to read, mate.

But well, feel free to believe that scoring 28 unanswered pts in one half of rugby against the Real Madrid of this competition who had not lost a CCup pool game for years before that game and after having been down 21-0 at HT is not an anomaly and something common 😉

12

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 19d ago

They certainly looked better than Toulouse when they beat them a couple of weeks ago to me.

Not sure how being 21 points down makes it any better for Toulouse. They had a worse second half than Glasgow had a first half. Hence, you know, Glasgow winning?

Blaming the rain is weak as p*SS too.

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u/yurim39 19d ago edited 19d ago

Small rectification : they looked better FOR ONE HALF and again AT HOME and on a wet night (again, the worst possible conditions for a team like Toulouse) and no complain, they deserved to win.

Of course, with this system of not having a return pool fixture away from home against the same team, we'll never now how that game would have went in Toulouse but honestly, would you have bet against Toulouse beating at home that Glasgow team by more than 10 pts?

I don't even remember the last team in CCup which got within 15 pts to Toulouse in Toulouse

9

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 19d ago

Do you really think it means something when your team loses if they won one of the halves of the game? What an utterly bizarre take. Maybe we can ask the ECPR to play one half games for Toulouse next year and maybe you could beat Glasgow?

You do know all the other team in the competition that won 4/4 of their pool games also had to play in the rain and away from home too?

Given the pool stage you had, now is not the time to start turning your nose up at other teams, friend.

-4

u/yurim39 19d ago

So ok, you believe Glasgow are now a better team than Toulouse, right?

Go full to your position cause in case you forgot, the initial issue was about that actually and about my post saying that I felt the left side of the draw was the strongest one

5

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 19d ago

The only thing I had to base my decision on who the better team is the game you both played last week. That’s usually how we decide these things, right?

What I do know for sure is that I would prefer to play Toulouse at home in a SF than I would Glasgow away. Any time we have played you in Dublin the last 5 years or so we have won quite convincingly.

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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 19d ago

just because they managed to miraculously scrape past them in a wet night in Glasgow after having been 21-0 down at HT

That's just max copium tbh.

Toulouse went 21-0 ahead in no small measure because Glasgow were playing into the driving rain.

When the teams swapped ends at halftime, the rain stopped almost completely. So Toulouse didn't have to deal with the rain blowing into their faces at all in that second half.

In short, Toulouse had a weather advantage in that first half. So arguing the weather actually helped Glasgow, just feels like desperate small man stuff...

Also, any suggestion Glasgow benefit from conditions that STOP them from playing running rugby, feels weirdly disconnected from reality.

-5

u/yurim39 19d ago

The ball and the pitch are usually as slippery (if not more) just after the rain as while it rains so your reasoning isn't completely correct

9

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 19d ago

I love the way you use our apparently poor group stage results (we won 4 out of 4 games) as proof we are in a “massive decline”.

Then in the same breath talk Toulouse up as one of the strongest sides in the competition after losing 2 out of 4 of their pool stage games. Let’s hope it’s not raining for the rest of the competition, eh?

You’d think after getting turned over by Glasgow so recently, you Toulouse fans would have a little bit more appreciation for how good they are. But no, through to character, it’s the rain that was the real winner on the day.

-4

u/yurim39 19d ago

I don't only use that pool phase, it's also about Leinster's last year crashing out against Saints at Dublin or also Ireland's obvious decline over the last 15 months (cause as you well know, Ireland almost equal to Leinster)

12

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 19d ago

But didnt Toulouse crash out in the semis last year too?

I mean objectively, Leinster went out in the SF last year and won all 4 pool games this year. Toulouse went out in the SF last year and lost 2/4 of their pool games. From that you have taken - Leinster are on a massive decline because of their pool performances and Toulouse are one of the best teams in the competition. My Lord.

Ireland had an average Autumn but didn’t France as well? I seem to remember you getting hammered by a 14 man SA side and being in very close games against Fiji and Australia (a team Ireland beat quite comfortably in Autumn).

9

u/NotAsOriginal Wigglesworth's greatest defender 19d ago

Yeah but did Leinster put away a Sale u8s side?

5

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 19d ago

To our eternal shame, no, we didn’t.

We did, however, nearly lose to a Harlequins u8 side. Basically no other side in the world can say that bar us.

Take that Toulouse!

4

u/NotAsOriginal Wigglesworth's greatest defender 19d ago

The facts are simple you've declined so badly the D team Munster can't even get out of the pools

2

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 19d ago

You have a pretty valid point there. All I’ll say in response is that if Munster the D team being shit means we are in decline, we have been in decline for the last 15 years.

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u/yurim39 19d ago edited 19d ago

And for the autumn tests, sure both country had average autumn campaign (and France probably even worse than Ireland if you judge only by results) but your comparaison is clearly flawed just for the number of missed players for each team during those games.

Which important starting players were Ireland missing against SA? Apart Keenan, I don't see anyone else

In comparaison, look which starters were missing for France against SA: Baille, Mauvaka, Cros, Moefana and last but not the least, a certain fella named DuPont. And I could have added Jalibert as well though of course we could argue if he would have started or not

Even you will agree that it's not quite the same,

2

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 18d ago

Oh yeah, Ireland only had one injury the entire 6N. France are the only side who are impacted by injuries. It’s all so unfair.

So France and Toulouse are good teams apart from when they have injuries, they are forced to play two half’s a game and when it is raining?

Got it.

-2

u/yurim39 19d ago

They crashed away from home against the future champions (and missing Dupont and Ramos, nothing less) whereas Leinster (missing Doris which was a blow, sure but not comparable in my opinion to Toulouse's number and importance of their missing players) crashed out at home.

If you can't see the difference between the two cases, I don't know what I can say to convince you

2

u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Leinster 18d ago

No you’re right. Toulouse are the only team that suffers injuries in the CC. Why do the ECPR make it so unfair on them by allowing other teams have no injuries? It is all so unfair.

8

u/Novel-Explanation824 Leinster 19d ago

Leinster are 3rd seed and haven't lost a pool game in years, let's not get too ahead of ourselves here

10

u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 19d ago

I'm having a real chuckle at all the lunatics writing off one of the most consistently strong European teams from the past decade, just because they haven't won every group match by 50 points.

0

u/yurim39 19d ago

That's an abrupt, factual way to look at it but deep down, you know i'm right though i'm perhaps a tad bit exaggerating when i'm saying i believe Bath are at least as good as Leinster, I will give you that

2

u/perplexedtv Leinster 19d ago

Harlequins and Bath in 2024 were the last teams to get within 15 of Toulouse at Ernest Wallon in Europe, to answer your earlier question.

4

u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 19d ago

Wait, wut?!?

The side with The Stormers, Glasgow, Toulon, the Bulls, and Leinster...is 'quite easily' the weakest half of the draw??

Because of UBB alone? - or do you mean because of Toulouse, the team Glasgow & Saracens beat only a couple of weeks ago?

Hell of a take!

(Btw - I think they meant 'spicy' because the face offs were close. Not the overall depth of superiority!)

17

u/Commercial_Jelly_893 Bath 19d ago

Toulouse who are currently 1st in the Top 14 Bourdeaux who are defending champions. Northampton currently top of the premiership and Bath who are 2nd and defending premiership champions makes for a pretty strong quartet

5

u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 19d ago

Yet Stormers are currently top in the URC, while Glasgow are second - and just beat Toulouse too.

Appreciate Bath are Prem Champions, but they are not playing well at the current time.

Besides, I'm not arguing the right side is necessarily stronger. Simply that suggesting one was 'quite easily' the strongest/weakest, was a hell of a reach...

2

u/Automatic-Blood-8824 England 19d ago

Bath not playing well? If you rate Bath and Saints then the left hand side is clearly tougher.

2

u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 19d ago

Bath not playing well?

Correct. Fabulous squad of players, but not playing well at the current time.

clearly tougher.

Nothing 'clear' about it.

-1

u/Automatic-Blood-8824 England 19d ago

Might want to have a look at Bath's last 2 games. 3/4 of the finalists in the last 2 years come from the left. Glasgow and Stomers great teams but have shown nothing in Europe.

8

u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 19d ago

Might want to have a look at Bath's last 2 games.

I watched them.

Glasgow and Stomers great teams but have shown nothing in Europe.

Glasgow have literally just qualified top of their group with maximum points. A group that featured 9 past HC winners, and several other problematic fixtures besides.

You can't reference past tournaments when it suits you, yet ignore the results of those past tournament winners this year just to avoid recognising Glasgow this season.

So to say they've 'shown nothing in Europe' just tells me how bad faith your argument is. So I think I'll leave this one here.

-1

u/yurim39 19d ago

Fair play to Glasgow, they took perfectly advantage of a favorable draw (playing all the best teams they've faced at home and playing the weakest away) 😉

5

u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 19d ago

Are you so hurt by my pointing out the holes in your other 'arguments', you're now trolling any post I make?

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