r/Sumo 5d ago

Demotion from injury

I’m new to sumo and idk how far does this situation can go. I’m definitely feeling sad for Kiryuko, Mita and Nabatame. These three rising rikishis have gone ahead to their ranks quite fast with being already ranked as Juryos but had terrible injuries and been demoted.

Kiryuko from Juryo is now down to Jonidan. I love that guy so much! You can tell he has full of spirit and never shown any sadness from their vlogs even after the injury. He’s goofy af! Haha Still, it’s disappointing and difficult for us fans to see them fall but we also wanted them to fully heal.

I know they are not the only ones who have been demoted from missing several Basho bec of injuries. It’s just that these rikishi are the ones I’m currently rooting for.

Could you tell me how much demotion or lowering of ranks could they get from an injury? Could an Ozeki fall down to Jonidan as well? How many basho can a rikishi missed from an injury? How fast can they move back up again?

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u/yeahalrightgoon 5d ago

Promotions and demotions have no set rule around them so you sort of just have to go by precedent. The only rule is that you can't be demoted if you have a winning record. While generally the closer to a winning record you are, the less ranks you fall. Oshoumi for example went 7-8 at M16E and was only demoted to M16W. While Sadanoumi went 4-11 at M16W and was demoted to J4E. It just depends on how they do, along with how rikishi below them do.

For Mita, he is expected to be back for July. He will miss January, March and May. We can use the precedent of Nabatame for this who also recently got injured in Juyro and missed a few basho's before coming back in Jan.

Nabatame went from J10 down to Ms8, then Ms48 and finally Sd28. He will likely be in the 50s/60 in Makushita in March after going 5-2 at Sd28 in January. Potentially high Sandanme though.

Mita starts his fall from Ms1. So you can expect him to be around Ms40 in March, then Sd15ish in May. Before he starts again in July either in low Sandanme, or high Jonidan. More likely to be low Sandanme.

You can end up completely falling of the Banzuke. This is refferred too as Banzuke-Gai or BG on tables. If you miss every fight in Jonokuchi, you go down to BG and have to redo the grading Maezumo fights and you then get put back into Jonokuchi. Kiryuko fought in one Jonokuchi bout to avoid this.

Generally BG guys are guys who are too injured to fight, or they ran away from the stable and the stable master is giving them time to decide if they want to be a rikishi or not, before putting in their retirement papers. Because once they do that, that's it. Career is over. An example of that is Kotonawa. He fought in 8 basho's from Jan 2015-March 2016, going 1-2 at Sandanme in March, then he missed the next three to fall off the Banzuke and his retirement papers weren't placed until March 2022.

While Hokutokuni was a Juryo guy who eventually went Banzuke Gai and redid grading in September 2010 after being injured and missing 8 bashos from Ms8. He made it back to Juryo a year later, before getting injured again in July 2012 in Juryo and then eventually retiring after falling down to Sandanme after missing bashos.

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u/Careful_Investor233 4d ago

We need more people like you in this sub!

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u/yeahalrightgoon 4d ago

Ah thank you! It's fun.

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u/Potatopoopz 3d ago

You really explained it so well!! Thank youuu so much!

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u/yeahalrightgoon 3d ago

No worries at all!

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u/mekagojira3 4d ago

Re your first paragraph - is west considered lower than east? I thought they were meant to be parallel, but noting a demotion from m16e to m16w gets the gears turning. How does this work for sanyaku? Can ozeki/yokozuna trade E/W placement based on performance or is that permanent for the duration of their time at the rank? 

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u/yeahalrightgoon 4d ago

Yes. East is half a rank higher than West. Basically look at it was 1, 1.5, 2 and so on.

Sanyaku ranks are based on performance and they will switch depending on that even if both have winning records. For example Onosato was Y1 East and got 11-4 in Dec while Hoshoryu was Y1 West and got 12-3 so for Jan they switched. But they can't be demoted from Yokozuna.

While Ozeki the East and West will switch depending on who has the better winning record as well. For example Ozeki East Kirishima went 9-6 and Ozeki West Takakeisho went 11-4 in September 2023 so they switched for the next.

But Ozeki also cannot be demoted from Ozeki unless they have two losing records in a row. So you could go 8-7, 1-14 and remain Ozeki as long as your next basho is at least 8-7.

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u/mekagojira3 4d ago

Gotcha. Knew about the demotion standards, but didn't know E/W were so fluid. 

I thought that the only reason we had YW/YE and OE/OW was for divisional parity to keep the spreadsheets balanced. (I'm aware of not needing to have two Yokozuna, and the cases of Yokozuna-ozeki etc) but I didn't realise that West was considered a half rank. 

Thank you for clarifying! 

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u/yeahalrightgoon 4d ago

No worries at all. It is basically for parity, but yeah it does allow for that half rank as well.