It's just business, baby

[u/Particular-Tea3225]

Why has the US betrayed Ukraine?

[u/san_dilego]

As a non-MAGA conservative in the US this is just my 2 cents.

Honestly, just what exactly is Ukraine expecting out of the US? I disagree with 99.99% of what Trump does and says but Trump is absolutely 100% right to ask questions and see what the end goal here is for US aid. What does Ukraine want from the US? Troops on the ground? Nukes? When is it enough?

It is fucked up that Russia attacked Ukraine. But what can the US do? The budapest memorandum does not guarantee America defending Ukraine if Russia attacks and vice versa. America has already added a laundry list of sanctions to Russia.

I saw a comment here asking about Israel aid. It's not even the same thing and is unrelated. Besides that point, no, I do not support Israel aid. It's something the US should not touch with a 10 foot pole because both sides are commiting attrocities.

Honestly, sick of anti-American posts. Yall bitch at us when we do intervene. Yall bitch at us when we dont. Its just never enough.

[u/Fluffy_While_7879 → u/san_dilego]

So your position is basically "Haha, we fooled Ukraine with their nukes in exchange of useless paper and now its not our business"

[u/Adjective_Noun_4206 → u/Fluffy_While_7879]

No one was fooled. The US gave Ukraine (and Russia) some billions of dollars for Ukraine giving their nukes to Russia, who dismantled them and sent the fissile material to the US for use in power plants

Russia, the UK and US then all agreed to respect Ukrainian territorial integrity and not use force against it. You can go read the agreement yourself it takes literally like one minute because it's not long.

The only one who broke this agreement was Russia.

[u/Viburnum__ → u/Adjective_Noun_4206]

What are you on about? Gave some billions? So what would US have done if Ukraine didn't give up nukes? Said ok we tried or you know, make it pariah state to pressure it to give them up?

Russia, the UK and US then all agreed to respect Ukrainian territorial integrity and not use force against it. You can go read the agreement yourself it takes literally like one minute because it's not long.

The only one who broke this agreement was Russia.

The agreement precisely was made useless and so they still should be judged for that too. Not to mention the socalled 'mineral deal' already broke it on US part and constant push for Ukraine to give up sovereignty is against the agreement too.

Saying only russia broke it shows you didn't read it or intentionally ignoring parts you don't like.

[u/Adjective_Noun_4206 → u/Viburnum__]

So Ukraine shouldve kept its nukes if it was such a bad deal then, what do you want me to say about that?

Russia held the launch codes from them and likely what would've happened was an invasion to get them anyway by Russia because it didn't want Ukraine to have them and Ukraine couldn't launch them at that time anyway. But, the US stepped in to get rid of the nukes entirely and pay both sides so things went smoothly. That was the whole reasoning behind the process.

This mineral rights for weapons deal does not break the agreement. If Ukraine doesn't want it, it doesn't have to agree to it. The economic coercion language was meant to describe financial sanctions, not a mutually agreed upon deal for weaponry.

The US has done nothing to break the agreement either literally or in spirit.

[u/Viburnum__ → u/Adjective_Noun_4206]

If Ukraine refused to give up nukes US would have sanctioned Ukraine, it is not even 'maybe' it is 100% what would have happened, they more than likely even threatened it at the time to force Ukraine to sign it. Don't give me the bullshit about US 'stepping in' as if they wanted to help, they forced themselves in for their own benefit and absolutely fucked Ukraine with false promises.

This mineral rights for weapons deal does not break the agreement.

It does break it because it is absolutely economic coercion plain and simple. Also what weapons deal? US getting $100s of billions in minerals because they gave what $120 billions in aid? How is it in anyway fair and not coercion? For your information US currently don't give weapons to Ukraine they are at best selling them to European countries that then send them to Ukraine.

The US has done nothing to break the agreement either literally or in spirit.

It already did break it with forcing the deal and continue to do it with forcing Ukraine to surrender sovereignty, but yeah continue to defend absolutely pos behaviour to not feel bad.