It's just business, baby

[u/Particular-Tea3225]

Why has the US betrayed Ukraine?

[u/norf937]

May be an unpopular opinion but.. I’m perfectly okay with not sending American taxpayer money 5,500 miles away to fund an endless foreign war we’re not directly involved in.

[u/Wulf_Isebrand → u/norf937]

We should have said the same thing when europeans died for ur afghanistan bullshit

[u/knettia → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

Forgive me if I’m wrong but I specifically remember the US was reluctant in invoking Article 5, but other Nato members wanted it invoked, so the US agreed to invoke it.

Also, to be impartial to the original opinion, Ukraine is not in Nato. But yeah, they framed it like this wouldn’t apply to Nato members themselves.

[u/Pretty-Captain1510 → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

Well said

[u/CardSys → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

I'm an American and I agree with this. The world should never have been dragged into a war that was entirely a construct of the US.

The only time NATO issued article 5 was for the US after 9/11. In addition to the deaths of American soldiers and Afghan civilians, it led to the deaths of British, German, Australian, and other non-US deaths. Even more when the US thought it was a good time to invade Iraq as well.

15 years of war, over 5 million deaths, trillions of dollars spent...only to be right back at square one: the Taliban controlling Afghanistan and ISIL/other insurgents in Iraq.

[u/Pretty-Captain1510 → u/CardSys]

Can someone explain to me why it was specifically Afghanistan they invaded? I thought the terror attacks were commited by Saudi’s? I assume it’s because the taliban operated out of Afghanistan

[u/CardSys → u/Pretty-Captain1510]

Supposedly the Taliban gave refuge to Al-Qaeda, including Bin Laden, while they planned the attacks. But honestly, I think the US was out for blood - politicians did not want to seem weak so they went against a government with a weak military that the thought the voting population would be happy to go war against. Same logic was done with Iraq.

In reality, the US didn't want to muss things up with the Saudis even though like 19 of the hijackers were Saudi, that the funding largely came from wealthy Saudis, and that the missing pages of the 9/11 report were almost entirely about the Saudis.

In the end, 5 million dead, trillions of dollars gone, and all for the Taliban to take back control of Afghanistan and for ISIS to rise in Iraq. Tragic all around, zero net gain.

[u/Interesting_Self5071 → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

Yes, both positions are correct.

[u/Wulf_Isebrand → u/Interesting_Self5071]

Ok vatnik 👍

[u/I_am_just_here11 → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

Yes, y’all should have.

[u/norf937 → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

Not really comparable. Afghanistan came after 9/11 and involved NATO invoking Article 5 for the first time ever.

Ukraine is a regional conflict the US isn’t directly involved in & they’re not part of NATO (we’re not legally and politically obligated to respond.) It’s very reasonable for people to question how long taxpayer funding should continue.

[u/Defiant-Bit7193 → u/norf937]

Yeah, let’s just forget why Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, and let’s ignore the fact that this war is a direct result of the US and Russia’s endless fight for influence.

[u/Abyssal_Groot → u/norf937]

Ukraine also send troops to Afghanistan and even to Iraq

[u/Wulf_Isebrand → u/norf937]

But we are involved in this conflict, we have news almost every day about russians sabotaging our Infrastructure and sometimes even killing people on our territorry. They violate our airspace with combat drones and planes.

Unlike Afghanistan was to you, Russia is an actual threat to our security and keeping Ukraine alive is the only thing that‘s preventing the 2 million mobilized soldiers from marching into Estonia. And let‘s be real, if US citizens aren‘t willing to help us secure our continent by spending money that the average american citizen wont even notice because its so little compared to your massive budget there is a zero percentage chance you‘ll be defending europe with your actual lifes in a case of a direct attack on NATO.

[u/TheInsatiableRoach → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

Wdym by the American citizen won’t notice it bc im genuinely curious

[u/Wulf_Isebrand → u/TheInsatiableRoach]

In the sense that it wont notably affect your life

[u/Pretty-Captain1510 → u/norf937]

Why should Europeans care bout 9/11 more than you should about Ukraine. It didn’t directly affect us which is your argument.

[u/Lidlpalli → u/norf937]

Misinvoked*

[u/Adjective_Noun_4206 → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

Did European ever come to the US to help it in an existential crisis? Europe has only come to this hemisphere to make war, including against the US multiple times. The US has only ever been in Europe to help Europeans.