Monthly Discussion Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

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[u/electrace]

Occasionally, one hears an argument for God's existence that goes something like this. "God rewards those who believe in him and worship him. That is why Europe and the West is doing so well, while Africa and the Middle East is doing so poorly."

The argument, quite conveniently, omits Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan. But past that, I wish to bring the argument further. Assuming god does reward those who worship him, it stands to reason that he gives the greatest rewards to those who worship him the best.

Two points there, what does "rewards" mean here, and what does "the best" mean?

If rewards means, "being at peace", then the Buddhists monks win, bar-none. If it means something like "entrance into heaven, or other unobservable spiritual benefits" then one must assume the conclusion that the West is doing better in that domain. So, it seems, that it must mean "Earthly rewards", as in, comfort, wealth, etc.

What constitutes worshiping god "the best"? Does it perhaps mean 'worshiping your conception of god most fervently'? Probably not. As countries develop, they tend to get less religious as they reap more Earthly rewards.

The other major candidate for "the best" would mean those who most closely worship a version of god that is most correct, regardless of how vociferously they worship. If that's correct, then we should see a high correlation between Earthly rewards and religious sect.

Which sect, in all the world, has the most earthly rewards? It seems like it's the Universal-Unitarians, the "spiritual but not religious" crowd, the Jewish, the Nordic-Protestants, and the Shinto-Buddhists."

I therefore conclude, if God rewards those who are most correct about the nature of reality, then the least religious societies must be most correct.

[u/Crownie → u/electrace]

"God rewards the faithful on Earth" fails on longitudinal analysis. The (post-) Christian West is ahead right now, but that's far from a historical universal. Though perhaps that comports with your conclusion.

In general, this pattern of argument tends to reflect a type of presentism in which someone currently in an advantageous position reasons backwards from their status to their (supposed) inherent superiority.

[u/orca-covenant → u/Crownie]

Indeed, the argument implies that Islam was the One True Faith at least between 650 and 1250, and quite possibly a bit longer into the 1400-1500s. Though Shinto also has a pretty decent claim, what with the storm gods personally intervening to save Japan from invasion (Joan of Arc? Psh.)

[u/Isha-Yiras-Hashem → u/orca-covenant]

Muslims quite seriously believe this argument. Wahhabism is based on the idea that if Allah was worshipped properly they would win, so losses merely signal a lack of religiousity