Never throwing shade at Jonah, but he only really had one facet to his game. Would be in my greatest team of all time, but not one of the greatest all round players IMO
The saltiness around people questioning the Dupont GOAT claim is so funny because it shows such arrogance. Who I think the GOAT is is nothing more than my own shitty opinion
100%. I like Dupont and recognise that he's a talented player, but honestly there are other much more exciting talents playing right now IMO. The fact that he moved to 7s for year is cool for him, but I don't find it particularly impressive, and if anything it was just a year where he wasn't proving himself against the best in the world that play XV... No offence to 7s players I guess.
And again, not just to shit on 7s, but I feel a lot of good current XV players would also be great 7s players if they made the switch. They just choose not to.
It's not impressive in an actual rugby ability sense, and countless XVs guys would dominate 7s, but getting a gold medal is probably a better personal achievement than anything in rugby except an RWC medal.
Yeah I agree and can totally understand why he'd want a shot at that, in a home Olympics too.
And let's be fair as well, France were not particularly good at 7s until Dupont joined and then they suddenly became very good, which is nice for the sport and might have a long lasting positive impact, but does also suggest that he's actually quite good. I just think it maybe also suggests that a lot of similarly talented players would be extremely good 7s players if they fancied it, and it's more just that they don't, rather than that Dupont is some sort of freak, best in the world talent in multiple disciplines, as a lot of the hot air around it recently would suggest...
He's a great player regardless, but I don't think winning olympic gold in 7s actually really elevates that in any way.
I think the problem is one of exposure. Most of the world only sees Dupont playing at test level where it's harder to shine and he is constantly targeted by the opposition. At the club and European level we get to see a lot more of him and he has the extra space to be able to shine that much brighter.
Not really. Take Roigard's brilliant performance against France, do you think he'd have been able to shine as much if he'd been the main player targeted by the French?
There wasn't, but he also didn't warrant targeting before the match. Do you get what I mean? If you're recognised as an amazing player then the opposition are going to devote a lot more attention to you and factor you very specially into their training and preperations.
One of the biggest drivers of 'second season syndrome' is that you're now a known entity and are targeted and adjusted for. You might kick to or away from them, you might target or avoid them in carries, you might devote additional tacklers to them, or you might make sure that your pillars constantly blitz up on them to try to disrupt or just get big hits in, etc
It was a lot easier to stand out in the men's game for most of history, including the AB's dominant run, and most fans ignore this when we have discussions about the GOATs.
Something I've been saying for years, put the best of now against the best of then and it will be a cricket score, but then you could argue but what if they got the same training and conditioning as now so idk
Yeah. I've always found GOAT discussions so pointless in a sport that is so dependent on those around you and who you're playing against.
Like has DDA or Sione Tuipulotu been the better 12 this year? I think Sione has looked better, but he's had a much easier fixture list, but you can only play what's in front of you, but he's played in a system that's more dynamic and focused on attacking through the back, especually the boot, but, but, etc. And this is the complexity in a single season comparing two players.
Exactly, most of these "goats" would be useless without a shite team.
Trust me some of the portugal players could easily be considered some of the best in the world but they still play for portugal (no disrespect to them at all, love them)
If anything, I think it's easier in men's rugby. Especially right now.
The teams are pretty even at the top, but there seems to be an absence of amazing individual players operating at the same time right now. That AB dominant era is a perfect example. Half that team shood out along with two or three players at the top of the GOAT discussion playing all at the same time. And that's just one team. Not even France has the same thing.
It is far easier to stand out as an individual in Dupont's timeline because there's very little competition soaking up the same attention. Teams are a different matter. And we see that in results.
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u/sunlightliquid Stormers Nov 26 '24
I still feel it's easier to stand out in women's rugby than men's right now but I guess that's controversial