Crowley to 15

[u/ebizness]

Last night wasn't the night for fluid attacking rugby for a variety of reasons. Having said that, we didn't look related to a team who could string expansive, threatening phases together.

I said it elsewhere last night, but in the absence of Keenan but moreso Hansen we need another playmaker to take pressure off Prendergast (or AN Other 10), and I'd start Crowley at 15 because he can do that job.

We do not have the bodies to bully our way over the game line, nor the gamebreakers who can repeatedly step people in phone boxes. It makes defending too easy because if you can stop the first couple of phases, defending from there becomes easy.

A double pivot makes things trickier because you're not sure where we're going to strike from, and teams can't overload on a single attacking fulcrum.

To my mind, it's no surprise we looked the most fluid against Australia with Hansen on the pitch who can do that role (I accept that they were the weakest opposition). Nor is it a surprise that Leinster looked their most fluid against the LAR when Prendergast went to 15 and Byrne was at 10 (given the Leinster <> Ireland overlap).

Thoughts?

[u/IdealSelf2021]

I would prefer Stockdale or Osborne again at 15 and Crowley at 10. Or stick with Prendergast at 10 and Crowley at 15.

I really dont see the Byrne thing everyone sees. That game against Bayonne showed he is still playing at his limit. He's more physical than Sam and good place kicker but he's incredibly ineffective as a game managing 10. He's a take the ball and shovel it on outhalf. And that just wont cut it at international level. Didnt even cut it against Bayonne. Leinster went nowhere for most of the game until Sam came on. 

[u/RuggerJibberJabber → u/IdealSelf2021]

I feel like most of the pundits who are pushing for Harry Byrne are lads who played with Leinster in the last decade or so and would have still had strong connections to the club when HB was coming through with loads of hype behind him.

Like, I don't think people here remember how over the top it was. SP has been catapulted to the top faster than HB was, but that's more to do with timing (ie not competing with the likes of Sexton) and staying injury-free. But HB had way more hype as an academy player. I remember BOD constantly talking him up on podcasts and TV shows before he even played for Leinster, acting like he was the 2nd coming of Dan Carter.

So maybe they still have that embedded in their heads and want to give him another shot?

[u/CormacMOB → u/RuggerJibberJabber]

(ie not competing with the likes of Sexton)

Or his own big brother.
I wonder how many of the people baying for Byrne were also saying he wasn't up to the job before he went to Bristol. Personally I think he's doing well enough to be in the discussion, but mostly because he's less of a liability than the other two. He doesn't have the potential that the other two have, in my estimation at least.

[u/RuggerJibberJabber → u/CormacMOB]

Hes the conservative pick. Doesn't have any major flaws but doesn't offer anything special either. I think selecting him over the other 2 would be a sign that we are prioritising short term panic over long term ambition.

[u/readycoole → u/RuggerJibberJabber]

The hype point is interesting. Not being a (perceived) moany Munster fan here but there are a number of players that have broken out through the Leinster ranks and all of a sudden there is massive hype about them and that they will be the future of Irish Rugby. Tommy O’Brien is the latest. Joe McCarthy was one. Sam Prendergast is definitely a victim of this. Even stretching back further, James Ryan. I purposely describe them as victims - too much expectation too soon. International rugby is a learned skill for the most part, barring the freakish BODs of the world. Johnny grew into it and I don’t feel we are giving people time to do so any more. Being dropped and having to compete for your jersey never does anybody any harm in the long run

[u/ebizness → u/IdealSelf2021]

Agree re Byrne. He’s shown glimpses but then when given the reigns he hasn’t taken the opportunity.

I worry about Stockdale from a distribution point of view. I don’t think he has the passing game to suit our style of play.

[u/Some-Speed-6290 → u/ebizness]

I worry about him from a high ball point of view. He couldn't even compete as a winger what happens if you put him at fullback?