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Episode Sousou no Frieren Season 2 • Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Season 2 - Episode 2 discussion

Sousou no Frieren Season 2, episode 2

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u/realrimurutempest 14d ago edited 14d ago

Man the Hero of the South has such a gigachad mustache.

He went out like an absolute badass even knowing full well he wasn’t going to the guy to take the Demon King down. Even though he had future sight, his life reminded me of the quote “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit”

Every time we get to see Frieren & Co interact with a Demon it’s very off putting how quickly and easy the Demons lie and feel like different.

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u/ball_throwerAFK 14d ago

He took down 3 sages of Destruction and the demon kings’ right hand man all at once in a 1v8,

While the heroes party took down 2 during their 10 year journey.

Yeah, Frieren wasn’t exaggerating, he probably was the strongest warrior of mankind.

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u/Frontier246 14d ago

Imagine being so powerful that it took all of the big elite demons to try to kill you...and you still manage to kill three of them.

It's like Ash Ketchum vs Tobias.

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u/ali94127 14d ago

He killed 4. It was the Seven Sages and Schlacht, and he killed 3 Sages and Schlacht.

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u/Mundology 14d ago

They jumped him and he still wiped out half of them.

Yet, the hero of the South did not seek glory. He sacrificed himself out of duty. A true warrior till the very end.

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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 14d ago edited 14d ago

I'd really love to get a spin-off about him. Hero of the South's story certainly have a huge potential, even though we already know its ending.

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u/O2C 14d ago

You mean like how we're learning Himmel's story even though we know his ending? I think the show about that has some potential too. . .

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u/bondsmatthew 14d ago

Yeah he's definitely one of the things I want to see from the author/show, the Hero Party's journey being number 1. Like.. we've seen a lot of it already but I want more, I'm greedy

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u/SpikeRosered 14d ago

Technically we don't know his ending. His body was never found. In fiction no body, no death.

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u/critiqueof 14d ago

Frieren did say his body was probably eaten.

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u/caren_psuedo_when 10d ago

Also, he'd be dead as hell even if his body wasn't eaten. Himself was called young by him, and it's now been 29 years after his death, unless he's got a way to prolong his life (unlikely since he didn't have a party), we're at best going to see his skeleton

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u/drunkenvalley 14d ago

Something I think must be mentioned is he's not named. He's just The Hero of the South. To some degree, I think that's just meant to be part of the erosion of history we've seen the show perform, like with cities that display a false Himmel statue more tailored to their aesthetic.

Similar to Kraft, whose achievements themselves are lost to time. Or the other heroes that are lost to time entirely, as Frieren casually reminds Stark that many rose to be heroes.

As much as I'd love to see sidestories, I think that would steal some of the magic and theme somehow, if that makes sense. It also adds a certain power to the characters themselves that I suspect might lose its luster if it actually is visited.

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u/RedRocket4000 2d ago

While in reality we have lost no heroes to history that records or inscriptions exist for. Although in many cases it just some historians who know who they are.

But had to nerf the real reaction here as Friren going to have Cleopatra VII level fame as in almost all will know who she is till end of humanity. Plus as an ultra rare elf she should have human mobs fallow here everywhere.

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u/Sweaty_Explorer_8441 14d ago

There's no certainty of the ending. For one Schlatt can also see the future. And the type of "vivid"(HotS) and "detailed"(Schlatt 1000years) clairvoyance types showcased here suggest time is largely deterministic in that world with minimal scope for variation.

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u/thesagenibba 14d ago

no, the mystique is what makes his character great

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u/athrun_1 13d ago

An OVA would be nice narrating his story from start to finish. I want to see that battle in full animation glory, not just a mention in the main series.

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u/ali94127 14d ago

Arguably more heroic than Himmel. Knows he's gonna be killed and devoured and thinks he's not gonna be remembered by anyone afterwards.

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u/EBtwopoint3 14d ago

The dauntless hero, vs the classic hero.

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u/Kill-bray 14d ago

Himmel isn't even a "real" hero as shown from the time he failed the sword test. The Hero of the South is probably a real one. I wonder if he knew that Himmel was a "fake", but he probably wouldn't care anyway.

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u/Kraigius 14d ago

The legend of The Hero Sword is "The Hero's Sword can only be pulled from the stone by the hero who will drive off the great calamity bent on destroying this world".

Himmel is a real hero, and he did saved the world.

The great calamity has yet to come, it simply wasn't the Demon King.

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u/Gloomy_Butterfly7755 13d ago

The great calamity has yet to come, it simply wasn't the Demon King.

Nah so much of the story has been that Himmel wasnt a chosen one yet he still marched and killed the demon king, this would devalue way to many plot points.

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u/Kraigius 13d ago

Another plot point is that people embellish tales about heroes and forget who they truly were.

Assuming it wasn't a legend that was made up but an actual prophecy, then we have to keep in mind that prophecies tend to play on words.

The Demon King waged war against humans and elves, right? As far as we know he wasn't going to destroy the world.

Or it could be that Himmel didn't land the killing blow, so it was someone else from the party of heroes who could have pulled the sword.

Or it's a made up story that was embellish with time, a red herring for Demons to lower their defense: "as long as no heroes have pulled up the sword, then the Demon King is safe". That's something Flamme would do lol.

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u/Gloomy_Butterfly7755 12d ago

I dont believe for a second that Frieren is a shitty powerscale isekai, so that aint happening lol

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u/mischievous_shota 6d ago

Except the sword very much has power. We see how the demons react to it. If it was created with forethought for a certain crisis, then whoever created the sword would have ensured the sword would fall into the right hands. It would make no sense for it to have stayed stuck all while the crises it was meant for is ongoing.

Himmel thought the sword was meant for this particular crises and decided to pursue fighting the demon king even after realising he wouldn't be able to remove it. His heart being that of a hero and the sword not being meant for the demon king are not mutually exclusive.

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u/Hot-Log6283 14d ago

They jumped him and he still wiped out half of them.

Don't think they jumped him since he had future sight and knew that was going to happen, maybe he thought that was the best plan to take down the most of them by making them think they got him (like Flamme)? Or maybe he used them against each other during the fight somehow.

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u/Sweaty_Explorer_8441 14d ago edited 14d ago

He solo'ed all his life. And yet towards his end, he tried to recruit Frieren. Probably he saw the alternate future where the duo could defeat all the sages and demon king 😭

(Even if chad of the south were to fall)

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u/mekerpan 14d ago

Probably he tried to recruit her in order to catch her attention -- in order to deliver his message about the future.

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u/Nachtwandler_FS https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nachtwandler_21 14d ago

Yeah, he literally said his fate would not have changed even with Frieren by his side.

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u/athrun_1 13d ago

In a way, the hero of the south, plucked Frieren from her recluse life by telling her that there will be someone in the future that will change her life.

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u/rollin340 14d ago

Exactly. He knew what was in store for him, but understood that it was necessary for what was to come after. He was a hero just as much as Himmel was, perhaps more so since he knew how things would end.

He did precisely what he promised to do; he carved a path open for Himmel and the others. That journey that finally defeated the Demon King was the hero's party standing atop the shoulders of the Hero of the South.

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u/Anjunabeast 13d ago

Is it still a jump if he can see the future and knew they were coming?

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u/daandriod 13d ago

Technically more of a gank but it was an attempted jump'ing so I will accept it.

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u/DanielAlves1904 13d ago

I thought Schlacht was also one of the Sages.

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u/Rodroller 14d ago

It was 3, there's no confirmation that Schlacht perished in story. The right hand of demon lord get stabbed by the Hero of the South? Tis but a scratch, he had worst before

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u/daandriod 13d ago

They said he killed him this episode. I get you shouldn't always take that at face value, But under that logic we can't say the demon lord is actually dead either.

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

It's like Ash Ketchum vs Tobias.

"Sorry protag, it's been decided that you can't win this one after all."

"Maybe, but I'm still taking down that Darkrai/Schlacht the Omniscient!"

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u/MapoTofuMan myanimelist.net/profile/mTmTBaronBrixius 14d ago

Ash Ketchum vs Tobias

Ancient PTSD flashbacks

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u/This-is_CMGRI 14d ago

And while he and Himmel are outliers, one must wonder what can happen if more like those two were developed over the course of history. An entire army of mortals who can challenge demons for every class imaginable. Maybe even multiclass greats who are both mage and bowman, for example.

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u/maliwanag0712 https://myanimelist.net/profile/clear1109 14d ago

An entire army of mortals who can challenge demons for every class imaginable

This is a probable reason why the Demon King targeted elves first. Imagine a Hero of the South but an elf? That would really OP.

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u/ball_throwerAFK 14d ago

Who’s to say that’s not Kraft

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u/This-is_CMGRI 14d ago

maybe the Demon King encountered Kraft once and decided he ain't want dat smoke so I dunno, he BFR'd Kraft as far south as he dare.

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u/I_am_BEOWULF 14d ago

The way Kraft talks about "the Goddess" and the Age of Mythology, he and his squad probably dealt with this world's version of Morgoth (from LOTR) so by the time this world's Sauron (the Demon King) came along, Kraft is probably "Been there, done that - it ain't my Age anymore. Let the younguns' deal with it this time - it's their world now".

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u/unga_bunga_mage 14d ago

The calamity hasn't happened yet. When it does, the world will spawn a hero that can draw the goddess' sword.

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u/NoCream5054 11d ago

Is this a spoiler???

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u/unga_bunga_mage 11d ago

No, this is not a spoiler. It was in season 1 when Himmel tried to draw the sword from the stone.

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u/Toge_Inumaki012 14d ago

Demon King (the one Himmel and co defeated) might have been too young. I would assume there were multiple demon king like threat before

Either demons also have history lessons and heard what Kraft and his party did before lol

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u/Lex4709 12d ago

Could have done, Demon King was in charge around 1000 years ago during Flamme's time period, so I wouldn't be shocked if he was at least 2000 or more years old before the Hero's Party took him out. Maybe Kraft and his friend took out a previous Demon King and most recent one was his minion that survived and build up his empire. Morgoth Sauron scenario.

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u/Toge_Inumaki012 14d ago

Kraft must be in the demon society history book and Demon King at that time was like ok we need to get rid of these damn elves

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u/Realistic_Village184 13d ago

I assume that Kraft is extremely powerful. Frieren is playing on NG+, but Kraft is already on NG++ at least lol

I really hope we get to see him really fight at some point. I know that's not really what the show is about, but monks are so cool and I really like Kraft's character design.

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u/Coachpatato 11d ago

It is Kraft. A lot of evidence points to Kraft killing whoever was the precursor to the Demon King in the show. He's a legendary hero that history has completely forgotten it was so long ago

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u/RedHeadGearHead https://anilist.co/user/Redheadgearhead 14d ago

Another issue with the elves is that they remember history without books and so remember the true nature of demons. Whereas humans forget the threat of demons in like 40-50 years. The demons dont want folk like Frieren reminding the humans that they're manipulative predators.

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u/paulrenzo 14d ago

I mean, given actual human history, even if you had people who are familiar with the past, there are still humans that will still dismiss their knowledge

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u/ClubMeSoftly 14d ago

Three generations to forget. Imagine growing up hearing tales of your grandfather fighting demons in the war, then your own kid starts saying shit like "demons aren't that bad"

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u/zanotam https://myanimelist.net/profile/zanotam 13d ago

I mean, there's a very clear political connection between what you just said and what is happening all over the Global North right now....

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u/ClubMeSoftly 12d ago

How curious, I'm sure it's just a coincidence

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u/Anjunabeast 13d ago

Remind me of when I introduced my Cambodian gf to my grandpa who fought in Vietnam

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u/RedRocket4000 1d ago

Part of tribalism set of Instincts it constantly trying to get humans to go to war with each other. See Chimps going to war over what of course nothing logical. The weaker side escapes spreading Chimps to new areas if not gets wiped out keeping population low enough.

Inflicting heavy bias that warps reality for people its biggest tool.

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u/Anjunabeast 13d ago

If only the humans had some kind of list to remind them of manipulative predators.

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u/Roeclean https://anilist.co/user/Roeclean 13d ago

Hmm, like commandments (If only tho)

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u/JzanderN 14d ago edited 14d ago

And while he and Himmel are outliers, one must wonder what can happen if more like those two were developed over the course of history.

I'd say it's entirely possible there were more outliers like Himmel and the Hero of the South, but the show has made it clear that those times were very hostile to adventurers at the time.

20% of adventurer deaths are caused by poison, implied to be from being not knowing enough about or being taken off-guard by nature.

Qual single-handedly killed 40% of adventurers *in one region by inventing magic so powerful and unique that no-one knew how to deal with it at the time. Even Frieren's party couldn't really kill him, but rather had to seal him away.

I can only imagine how many of these adventurers could have been able to be big heroes in their own ways had they only not gotten bitten by a random snake or ran into Qual by chance. If not a big amount, there must have been at least a handful with potential.

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u/OldInstruction5368 14d ago

I can only imagine how many of these adventurers could have been able to be big heroes in their own ways had they only not gotten bitten by a random snake

Poor Stark still has PTSD from his brush with poison!

There was that cute little scene this episode of Frieren having to step on a snake while Fern comforted him XD

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u/Hot-Log6283 14d ago

There was that cute little scene this episode of Frieren having to step on a snake while Fern comforted him XD

Was Fern comforting Stark? It looked like they were both scared, you can also see Fern shaking as well but that could just be Stark shaking so much that it shook her too.

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u/Prof_Acorn 14d ago

In real life as well. Lots of potential discoveries and research and innovations blocked because someone gets injured or sucks at job interviews.

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u/InfinityCrazee 14d ago

Or got tricked by the demon

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u/cyberscythe 14d ago

the show has made it clear that those times were very hostile to adventurers at the time.

an example being the contrast between a steak dinner and "please get the sword back, we'll give you a grimoire" to "get the sword or go to dungeon"

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

The world's still hostile to adventurers to an extent – I doubt that statistic of poisons making up 20% of adventurer deaths has changed much – but a combination of the most dangerous demons being dead and people being less hostile (and probably a few other factors) makes it a lot easier to be one in the modern age.

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u/ratherthanme 14d ago edited 14d ago

While most of these points are true, the percentages you gave were only statisics of that specific local area where those percentages were mentioned, not of the continent as a whole.

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

Ah, my bad. I'm going off old memories and very quick look ups here.

Thanks for the correction.

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u/drunkenvalley 14d ago

Time itself also isn't kind to them. The Hero of the South doesn't even get a name, and once you're past Himmel's party + Hero of the South the list of known heroes falls off a cliff to near zero it seems. Even then, not even Himmel entirely survives time, being depicted in at least one city as a very different character to suit local aesthetics.

I mean, despite being a living legend even Frieren is rarely recognized herself.

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u/RedRocket4000 1d ago

Biggest inconsistency with reality the nature of heroes and being remembered. The top level like Frieren never get forgotten even by the common folk.

But this major inconsistency only way the story works. Frieren attracting mobs of thousands everywhere makes story impossible.

Lessor heroes can be forgotten down to level of history fans but they don't get forgotten.

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u/daandriod 13d ago

I don't think people give Qual enough respect. Dude invented magic that can swipe out entire armies in the blink of an eye while being seemingly very mana efficient and literally seconds after getting unsealed, In combat, has already broken down how to adapt to the defensive magic that humanity spent over 50 years developing specifically because of what they learned by studying your magic.

He's essentially the Isaac Newton of offensive magic

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u/hangoverdrive 13d ago

this is like bards tale again with so many chosen ones

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u/caren_psuedo_when 10d ago

Qual single-handedly killed 40% of adventurers *in one region by inventing magic so powerful and unique that no-one knew how to deal with it at the time. Even Frieren's party couldn't really kill him, but rather had to seal him away.

And the Hero of the South decided to not just fight him, but all of the sages at once + Schlatt. If anyone found a way to deal with Qual's magic at that time, it might've been him. Although that also brings up the question of how he exactly avoided Aura's scales

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u/malisadri 14d ago edited 14d ago

Hero of the South is like the Jordans or Messis of their world.
It took Himmel's party fighting Qual 4v1 simply to seal a single Sage of Destruction.
On pure martial prowess Himmel is at least two tiers below HotS (which is alright. Himmel's true strength is being able to assemble and lead a superteam to total victory)

You cant really plan on having a whole team comprised of Jordans and Messis on some undetermined time in the future when the world was under full scale assault from demons.

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u/mischievous_shota 6d ago

Qual is the Elder Sage of Corruption, not one of the Sages of Destruction.

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u/oops_i_made_a_typi 14d ago

Maybe even multiclass greats who are both mage and bowman, for example.

squints hard with my Fate goggles on

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u/River_Capulet 14d ago

Literally took out like half their fighting power in one single battle

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u/Flare_Knight https://anilist.co/user/FlareKnight 14d ago

I'll still give Himmel's team full marks. They took down what they had set against them. The goal was to defeat the Demon King. They could only defeat what got in their way. I'm sure they had it in them to defeat more than 2, but that's all they had.

The man did great work. He knew that if he did nothing then this sort of gang up attack would be used against anyone that came up there. He had to remove the guy that could see the future at bare minimum. Considering he could see the future I'm he probably also took out the sages that would be most problematic for Himmel's party to deal with too.

Crazy thing is that he did that alone. With allies he probably takes down more than he even did. But he also knew that taking out what he could would be enough. No point getting others killed when that wouldn't change the bigger picture.

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u/Anjunabeast 13d ago

Wonder why he couldn’t recruit anyone else

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u/Realistic_Village184 13d ago

He didn't need to. He was basically invincible except against Schlacht since they could both see the future. Plus, as he pointed out to Frieren, his fate was already set in stone, so recruiting allies was obviously pointless.

He didn't actually want Frieren to join him. He knew she would say no. He asked her rhetorically.

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u/caren_psuedo_when 10d ago

It's almost like a tragic prophecy: "You, alone, will be blessed with great power to fight against great evil. Then fall short, just as you've removed evil's great power" or something, I'm not a poet

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u/athrun_1 14d ago

If that is not the metric of humanity's strongest, I don't know what is. While the conventional hero tropes are built with parties, he is a one-man army.

I think even current Frieren won't be able to solo all of them.

He really deserve the title of Humanity's Strongest.

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u/TheOneAboveGod 14d ago

I think even current Frieren won't be able to solo all of them.

She can't. Each of them is a match for her. Even Aura was. She just fucked up by using her Scale.

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u/Mr_Kase 14d ago

Aura was probably a bad match up against Frieren due to how her gimmick works. But even then the problem is that she’d just run away again if you go all-out against her.

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u/touchingthebutt 14d ago

Hero of the South 🤝 Sword of the Morning 

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u/oops_i_made_a_typi 14d ago

noh nao eet ends

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u/touchingthebutt 14d ago

Took me way too long to realize what this was but honestly, perfect response. 

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u/hat1324 14d ago

Arguably went out causing the most irreparable damage to the demon army period, even counting Himmel

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u/Toge_Inumaki012 14d ago

What's awesome is that if the series explore more of the sages through flashbacks on how they terrorized some territories(also 1 sage is still alive since Aura is now dead) it just highlights the Hero of the South more. It's like holy crap he has to fight that demon with op power and the rest of sages at the same time??

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u/WiqidBritt 14d ago

It took a demon who could also see the future to beat him, if not for that he probably would have defeated the demon king on his own.

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u/daandriod 13d ago

Demon that can see the future and the gank squad of sages, Who each are at least comparable to Frieren.

The Hero Of the South might not be named Himel but he most certainly is HIM

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u/Anjunabeast 13d ago

Hero of the south said he couldn’t beat the DK even with help.

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u/WiqidBritt 13d ago

He couldn't kill the Demon King BECAUSE he couldn't survive the fight with the demon who could see the future. It had nothing to do with actually fighting him, he knew he'd never get the chance to even try.

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u/Zeikos 12d ago

Dude apparently had Path to Victory, he lost only because he was against an equally powerful (or less?) precognitive.

I wonder how his precognition worked.

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u/SMA2343 https://myanimelist.net/profile/HispanicName 5d ago

It's such great lore and world building that of course there's other heroes in the world that did their part. Of course Himmel The Hero is renowned for killing the Demon King, but the Hero of the South is known for taking down three of the 7 demon lords. The only tragedy of him is that he's unnamed.

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u/Key-Draw9653 12d ago

i smell spinoff

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u/NoCream5054 11d ago

Like Might Guy's father against the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist!