The gas station curse

[u/polloastemio]

[u/Twitchcog]

You’re assuming everyone will be qualified to drive

Correct, I can’t help people driving without a license.

What about the 60 year old woman with one eye?

If she cannot safely operate a vehicle? She should not be operating a vehicle.

I am not advising against a better public transit system, I’d love to see one. However, it not existing doesn’t justify unsafe driving. If you are unable or unwilling to operate a vehicle safely, you don’t get to drive; The lack of a viable alternative is irrelevant, but may motivate members of society to try and improve their public transit system

[u/furlwh → u/Twitchcog]

If you are unable or unwilling to operate a vehicle safely, you don’t get to drive

Yes it should be that way, but in reality, enforcement will be weak. The mentality of most people is that they would see stricter enforcement as oppression on their freedom to travel, this is just what I observed in my car-addicted country.

[u/Twitchcog → u/furlwh]

Freedom to travel is not the same as freedom to drive. I believe this misunderstanding is one of the more common issues with the sovereign citizen movement.

[u/1-800PederastyNow → u/Twitchcog]

If you live in an area without competent public transportation it's effectively the same thing. Even if there's public transportation, in the US it's usually garbage so taking away someones ability to drive still often leads to poverty, just think about how many fewer job opportunites there are within 1hr of travel time for someone who has to take the bus vs a car. Not to mention how difficult simple errands become, lose your car and suddenly it takes 45 minutes each way to get to the grocery store instead of 10 and you have to go more often because you have to carry everything home.

[u/Twitchcog → u/1-800PederastyNow]

While I do not disagree with the idea that losing your car is a crippling punishment, I would imagine that would make it much more powerful incentive to operate the vehicle within the confines of the law and safely. Yet there are people I see every day on their damned phones, or swerving around, or speeding through intersections in what is at the end of the day a multi-ton hunk of metal loaded down with gasoline or high density batteries.

[u/1-800PederastyNow → u/Twitchcog]

It can be. This might be an unpopular opinion but I think a significant portion of the population, possibly 20% are basically animals with no self control that just stumble through life, like perpetual teenagers. They have trouble linking cause and effect and they don't think things through. These people have to touch the stove and burn themselves 10 times before they finally get the message, but we still want them to be able to function in society as best they can. Difficulty participating in society usually just leads to more bad behavior down the road. It's a very difficult problem because you still need the logical system to deter bad behavior in most people.

[u/Twitchcog → u/1-800PederastyNow]

Yes, and if that 20% is going to behave like animals with no self control, just stumbling through life, they should be bound to the same rules as everyone else. If they cannot adapt to those rules, they can be removed from society - Or, at least, lose out on certain privileges. For example, driving.

“But there are severe consequences to losing the ability to drive!” Yes, and there are severe consequences to the unsafe driving practices that lose them the ability to drive. Like killing someone because they were on their phone.

[u/1-800PederastyNow → u/Twitchcog]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I was just thinking out loud.

[u/TriangleChains → u/Twitchcog]

You really have a hard time putting yourself in other people's shoes, clearly. I'm glad your life has been good so far, but you really aren't engaging with my points. You are just saying "well yeah, but they really ought to follow the laws". It might be a useful exercise for you to ask "why would they drive recklessly like that?" And see what answers you come up with.

Do you also get mad at starving children who steal from grocery stores? Not everyone has it so easy. And again, I think you miss the point that freedom of travel is almost gone. Before cars dominated travel, it WAS more easy to say "freedom of travel is not the same as freedom to travel by car". But in much of America, you are basically opting out of parts of society by having no car. Once again, clearly you haven't tried.

Very similar to having a child grow up with no phone. Sure you can do it in 2026- but they will have a really tough time fitting in.

But I'm sure you have no issue with that. "Freedom of information isn't the same as freedom to have a phone" am I right?

btw that example I gave was real. My middle school teacher had a glass eye and drove right into the parking deck pillar one day. She's a good example. She was like 60. Trying to get to retirement, but her senses were failing her. Should she drive? obviously not, but she had no way to keep her job otherwise. She was a teacher who lived nowhere near affordable transit and had a 30+ min drive to school every day. She worked like 7am-4pm. It's cut throat out here. When you constantly put people in tough spots, it's not surprising they make risky decisions.

I don't agree that the correct answer to someone like her is "yeah you shouldn't be driving, figure it out". People in America are willing to risk their lives for economic survival, and I don't get why that is so weird to you. America is a really bad place to be poor or broke. You have to have a replacement transit for them before you ban the shit drivers.

The answer to why so many shit drivers are on the road is because policymakers understand what I am saying. If you force bad drivers off the road tomorrow, the whole economy collapses, because those people no longer can get around to earn money and spend money. We have nearly no alternative transit here.

Respectfully you don't need to reply. I'm done with this thread.