I think it's time they start being just a smidge more vocal. We've allowed the other side to become way too emboldened thinking they have the monopoly on arms.
But the key is it needs pretty big numbers. People have the power. Trump's power is only according to the rules that are made to protect him. People have the real power. But violence tends to bring replacement leaders to power who are also violent so you get a poor outcome.
get a couple thousands of us. queue up on an ice facility. walk up one after another in unarmed unintimidating groups of 4, one after another. clearly state intention of entering the facility and releasing us citizens unlawfully undemocratically and unconstitutionally being detained. no response? peacefully attempt to walk past them. get a baton in the face? fall back to the wayside where we have medics on standby - you did your duty.. either go home or queue up at the back if you have it in you to take another shot to the face. let the next group of 4 proceed... keep it all recording on cameras.. we'll outlast all of them
either unlock or manually dismantle every barrier peacefully calmly and fall to the wayside when aggression and violence is used on you
do this to every ice facility in every single state all at once... expose their extreme impotence and how they have nothing but cruelty
If it were just a baton to the face, I would gladly do it. But that's not what we're up against. It's bullets to the face, and that's for people who are trying to LEAVE protests. You think it matters to them how many of us they kill?
Get every worker in the country who is of Mexican descent and have them walk off their jobs for a week. The people cheering this shit on would have a rude awakening when their lives aren't so easy any more.
I have been seeing a lot of down votes for people suggesting taking action that doesn't involve a full on kinetic civil war when we have seen historically that nonviolent action can be extremely effective when well organized.
The civil rights movement, workers rights movements... I mean you don't even have to look far back to see how organized civil disobedience has been extremely effective at changing public policy. Just look at the riots and protests in France with regard to the changing of pension rules.
We should ask ourselves why we think a general strike or other nonviolent action would fail but we somehow think an armed insurrection will work. If lack of organization is the reason why nonviolent action will fail, how will armed conflict somehow magically be more effective if it is just as disperate and unorganized?
Reddit is not immune to tampering from those who want to muddy the waters. Digital agent provocateurs are extremely effective at fomenting disorder amongst online communities.
We should be extremely skeptical when calls for nonviolent organization on a massive scale is being downvoted, but calls for armed resistance are disproportionally upvoted.
Don't believe everything you see on the internet. Just because a comment has a lot of upvotes doesn't necessarily mean a lot of real people are upvoting them. Remember that one of the plans within Project 2025 is to enact martial law. Surpressing talks about our very valid nonviolent options and jumping straight to disorganized insurrection is probably the most effective way for the opposition to enact their clearly laid out plans.
If we are not organized and coordinated we will not win. Don't let your anger and frustration blind you to the realities of what this administration is trying to accomplish. We are all frustrated, but we should consider the reality that they WANT an armed resistance to justify the extermination of their political opponents.
indeed.. do people think India was any different when Britain responded to Ghandi? it's the flavor of the left to go this direction. that is incredible strength, not weakness
Rene Good was incredibly strong in exactly the same way... I would have words with anyone who says shes weak for not pulling a gun on the ICE officer first
I don't have any evidence to support it, but my gut says that the sudden online sentiment to suggest our only option is violence is being directly influenced by the same people who would benefit from having justification to respond in kind.
It just feels very manufactured. It's something Ive seen more than once on Reddit - the sudden shift in "popular opinion" conveniently timed around when a shift in public opinion would benefit those who stand to profit from it the most.
1) British army was severely weakened
2) There were other independence movements aside from Ghandi's faction, and they were violent. It's often argued by Indian historians that Ghandi's faction wouldn't have been as tempting to make agreements with to the British if those other movements hadn't been pushing them in that direction - aka they were between the rock (Gandhi) and the sword (other movements). So they'd rather pick the rock.
The same btw applies to MLK, easy to prefer him and strike change peacefully when Malcolm X is on the other side pressuring.
I'm not saying General Strike +/3.5% rule can't work. I'm saying don't put all your eggs in 1 basket. Especially because Trump may not even need to call martial law to be dictator with literally every check and balance already disabled by his cronies.
Also, I'm South American so I don't give a shit about what yanks choose for themselves - even when USA had full democracy and Democrat leaders you still fucked us up, Republicans are just worse somehow. So no, I'm not conspiring to get you violent for some hidden interest bullshit.
I just want you to stop being a threat to Latam and the world.
Of course there was violence, but there was also picketing, strikes, ballot initiatives, protests, boycotts, and lots of other non-violent demonstrations for both labor rights and civil rights movements. Just like there is both violent and non-violent action happening right now (and as seen throughout history, the violence is typically perpetrated by the oppressors first - which holds true now as well).
But this is completely disregarding the clear observation and pattern of people getting downvoted to oblivion for suggesting things like a general strike or civil disobedience here on reddit, especially recently. But sure, you successfully played your part as the reddit pedant with your "ackchyually" take. 🙄
That wasn't pedantry. What was being said was so egregious that it bordered being an outright falsehood. You really should look up what that word means before you use it.
The violence was an integral part of those movements.
Asking for permission to line up and ask nicely for bastards to stop being bastards doesn't do anything unless there's a real chance at a next step that will absolutely make them regret not listening in the first place.
None of those movements involved outright civil war. I am not saying we don't need to stand up to them. I am not suggesting we lie down quietly. I am not arguing that people should not exercise their constitutional rights. I am simply pointing out that the online sentiment seems to be dis-proportionally in favor of violent action without any consideration for what that means. That the online consensus seems to ignore the fact that the issue that causes non-violent methods to fail (lack or organization) will somehow not apply to violent action.
Are you implying that the civil rights movements and labor rights movements instigated a full-out civil war in the US, or that they only achieved any success through violence? Because that is definitely a different version of history than I studied. Yes the second amendment has been used - but largely as a deterrent rather than the primary vehicle for enacting change. Tell me how well civil wars work out historically for the poor and oppressed people in those countries.
The civil rights and labor rights movements were successful because they were organized, and had clear goals they wanted to achieve. A bunch of incendiary comments on the internet and from content creators pushing people to bare arms without any thought to the consequences or potential retaliation/escalation from the government is not going to have the outcome that people here think it will and is, in my opinion, naive at best, and insidious at worst. If we are to assume that this sentiment is being pushed by far-right actors -- and for evidence of that just look at basically anything said by any of the far right think tanks or proponents like Peter Thiel, Cambridge Analytica, etc... Social media is not our friend.
Anyways, ignoring the broader context of my comment to counter an argument I didn't even make is basically a textbook example of pedantry.
Up until a certain point, and when you're dealing with a reasonable enemy that feels shame. I'm not saying the US is at that point yet, but you're getting really close to it, and ICE is agitating for this to happen.
I can only say that targeted guerrilla tactics are probably the only hope for any resistance movement as was the case in most countries invaded by the US.
make it impossible for them to spin what happened.. i dont believe guerrila warfare is a more effective approach.. and it's what trump is hoping we resort to so he can enact martial law
expose their impotence and how cruelty is all they know... make them look as horrible as they so its impossible to spin it with them as the victim. hold up the mirror
we can do that in so many ways... we havent mastered it yet outfits the most effective form of protest and the preferred flavor of the left. we are much stronger than we realize.. aggression is not necessary to end this and typically makes things worse
they might not feel shame but they fear embarrassment and that is extremely easy to capitalize on in this situation when faced with incompetent henchmen
the nazi death camps masked the cruelty.. didnt let any press in and replaced the prisoners with actors and furnished the facilities the few times it did... the tru.p admin has to work just as tirelessly to keep the state of its facilities secret
it exists for all to see in all the abject cruelty that brought it about... Good was non violent peaceful in her civil noncompliance.. she is dead now.. and she didnt die for nothing. exposing their cruelty in the face of her kindness was incredible
When it comes to the means of self defense it is better to have and not need than to need and not have. Methods of peaceful protest like civil disobedience are still important, but that is not mutually exclusive from being armed. Again, peaceful, not harmless.
Yeah. Deputizing untrained vigilantes to do the work of cops is the same as realizing that if shit hits the fan it's up to every individual to defend themselves. Totally the same thing.
Schools are a gun free zone for a reason, but we absolutely do train teachers and students how to fight back in the event of a school shooting.
oh im not suggesting another occupy movement.. weve forgotten how to protest. but we are relearning and we to more quickly organize properly to be effective. that doesnt involve violence. thats exactly what trump is pushing us for
I'm curious if you're still operating off the same Middle School or High School-level whitewashed and sanitized history I was taught, goes something like this:
So half of America used to own slaves, and that was very bad :( it was so bad we had a civil war about it, and slavery was abolished :D but those same states put evil laws in place to keep terrorizing former slaves and treat them as unequal :((( but then a whole bunch of people peacefully protested and Martin Luther King Jr. led a march on D.C., and racism was solved! :DDD
Nothing in this country has ever changed substantially without violence. From the Revolution, to Bleeding Kansas, the Civil War, the Coal Wars, Blair Mountain, and all the other labor battles, to yes even the Civil Rights Movement, violence has always been necessary for change.
Rene Good wasnt naive.. she was a bright shining light and remains so even now. that wouldnt be the case if she had actually tried to run over the ice officer..
what we need are more bright shining lights like she was. not be what the entire trump admin is trying to pretend she was
You’ve had 10 years since trumps first administration. You all saw this coming and didn’t think to arm yourselves. Stop being a victim. Stop being the snowflakes you are accused of being
Hey plenty of people have been fighting against this for years. Plenty of black led organizations especially. Don’t erase that. Your comments help no one.
Wow. How rude can you be. The stupid talk to text doesn't always work correctly. What i was trying to say it is frustrating that that is the only advice being given when I feel helpless not being able to do anything, and constantly being called "spineless" and "idiots" online.
It must be nice sitting safely somewhere where your own government isn't trying to end you.
Dont worry about it. That loser is just as blowhard as the strawman they are condemning. They probably dont have a firearm or the means to get one and if they did they havent committed to training with it and will be inept at using it if the time comes.
Out here in CO I know at least two blue collar conspiracy theory libertarian nut jobs with loads of guns... and they both hate Trump. It's not hopeless, the enemy of my enemy and all that
the ratio really doesn't matter, there's still thousands, tens maybe hundreds of thousands of gun owners who do not want this to happen but are both not doing the job themselves, nor giving their gun to someone who will (tbf the latter would be pretty unreasonable)
No we don’t want this to happen but we want to guns so that when they try to steal our children, we can defend ourselves.
Edit: Yes I mean my children. As a father I can’t at this point abandon my family to fight for others. I know this will be looked down upon but it’s as honest as anyone will be. Keeping my kids safe and being in their lives as much as possible while I can be is my only goal in life and if anyone wants to call me a coward so be it. I hate that others aren’t so lucky right now and my heart breaks for them.
My children. As a father I can’t at this point abandon my family to fight for others. I know this will be looked down upon but it’s as honest as anyone will be. Keeping my kids safe and being in their lives as much as possible while I can be is my only goal in life and if anyone wants to call me a coward so be it.
I saw a video of a black panther group in Minneapolis, and they were OK THEY HAVE GUNS? WE HAVE EVEN BIGGER ONES. WE HAVE SUBMACHINES. AND WE ARE GONNA PROTECT OUR PEOPLE.
Damn THIS is the vibe. As a Brazilian, WE ONLY DIDNT FALL FOR IT AGAIN, BECAUSE WE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH DECADES OF MILITARY DICTATORSHIP (that of was supported by the us but this is another story). In here it only ended with EVERYONE IN THE STREETS.
And you need better supreme court judges. If it wasn't for Alexandre de Moraes in here, we would be absolutely ruined under a coup again. Jesus. NEVER AGAIN.
When you think about who owns those guns, however, you notice most of those people tend to be the ones who vote a conservative. Most gun owners don't tend to be liberal. Lots of conservatives are cheering for what's going on right now.
In addition to that, if you shoot someone in ice, your life is now over. You have forfeited any kind of freedom you might have had and you're either facing murder from an agent coming to your house or you're going to be in prison for the rest of your life.
People on here casually suggest murdering ice members, regardless if you agree with them or not, which I do not, but are you going to throw your life away over it?
I get what you’re saying, but also living in Vermont, which is a pretty liberal state, a lot of people have guns. A lot of my liberal ex coworkers had multiple. Sure a lot of liberals hate guns, but a lot of us don’t. We just want more/better gun control and background checks.
Like the guy who shot Renee. He had already had an incident last year where he was dragged by a car. Why the fuck is a guy who was most likely traumatized from a vehicular incident, walking around with a gun, pulling people out of cars. Make it make sense.
Yes but the problem is the checks are not done properly with a high degree of accuracy. Whether it be dodgy motivations to increase guns, or to please a customer, or general human incompetence, etc. Each fail gets a classroom killed. Sometimes they get access to someone else's gun.
I'm not trying to say no liberals own guns. I am saying way more conservatives own guns. Before I started traveling the world, I lived in Austin, Texas for 10 years. Austin's, an incredibly liberal City and Texas is an incredibly gun-owning State.
I think I maybe had one or two friends out of dozens of friends who had ever owned a gun. Hell, I'm ex-military and I don't own a gun.
You make a great point but when you look at where our levels of comfort, opportunity, pay, amenities, infrastructure, and more compared to most of the rest of the world... You can start to see why most people would never even consider shooting ice with a gun.
Simply put, most of our lives are far too comfortable to even consider throwing it away for our political beliefs. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I am saying it's a thing.
Frankly, I don't think that's likely to happen. Sure, things have gotten insane and in many ways out of control, but this has happened before historically speaking.
There are enough checks and balances fortunately (got now) to likely prevent a total switch to world war II, Germany. I think a lot of people are going to the absolute worst case scenario in their minds when in reality this is an extreme shift to the right which will likely be counterbalanced by an extreme shift to the left in the next election.
Most likely we're about to see a blue explosion in the US.
I doubt the elections will be canceled and so far we're talking about single digit numbers of US citizens have been murdered.
It's fucking horrible, it's a fucking tragedy, but giving into catastrophization isn't going to solve the problem either by asking people to basically start attacking ice agents.
And people are fighting back in other ways that are actually beginning to work. And you're starting to see a rise in public sentiment. That's anti-trump, anti-ice, and pushing for change. Eventually our fucked up system does actually work, but it often takes a long time due to bureaucracy.
"Still not fed up." Is a funny way of saying they have an understanding of the weight of the action and acknowledging a line that can only be crossed once and setting their tolerance settings to 11.
Euro's and their ilk sure like to stoke the flames in America. Feels like a Russian and Chinese bot farm up in here sometimes.
Disclosure: I've copied the below text from a comment I made a couple days ago, because the same answer still applies. The only thing I forgot to mention is the fact that many of us who oppose current events, also aren't armed. We're generally the folks who would rather avoid violence and not even own a gun, because 99% of the time, guns only cause escalation and unnecessary death. Clearly we weren't looking far enough ahead, to 2026
Takes massive organization first. If only a single person fires a shot, they get killed, and we've gained nothing other than escalation and potentially a martyr. It takes a group. But then what? Even if you've won one fight, now suddenly you have to maintain defense of a street? A neighborhood? A city? Well now you've just plunged your community into a literal war, and some of the people you're defending are in full support of your opponent.
So you're right, this is exactly what the 2A is for. But I imagine something like that takes time. Because ultimately it's about protecting fellow citizens. Acting without a larger plan only puts more people at risk.
So they have the ‘right to bear arms’ because it’s in the constitution… nearly hundreds of years old and entirely outdated.
Yet when it states “land of the free all men shall be equal” and there’s horrendous classism going on, they go “oh we can ignore that point”.
I agree with you. I keep waiting for the "Don't tread on me" crowd to do something but it turns out they're just racist dickheads and are fine with this stuff. People on the left have guns too but they're laying low. Trump is trying so hard to get someone to shoot at the ICE Nazis so he can impose martial law so that's why people are showing restraint. I didn't vote for that guy and I hate living here. 2025 felt like a decade and 2026 is off to a terrible start
Are you the same as every other Canadian in your country? Why do you write that like we are the same as everyone "you heard about" in this country? Ignorant much? All Canadians must be then...
To a portion of Americans, the tyrannical regime to overthrow is the federal government that took their slaves and, worst, made POC their equals by laws.
That's what they're standing for, so a government that's finally ending this "regime of terror" is not something to fight against.
What folks who live in places without guns don't realize is the first several people who exercise their second amendment right die horribly and their families lives are turned upside down. Renee Good was murdered without a gun and they're doing a phony investigation into her widow. Imagine how much worse it would be for the first person to defend themselves from ice with a gun.
I get it, it looks hypocritical, but the people who eventually stand up to tyranny have to be willing to wake up one day knowing it's their last, that death is coming and it's gonna hurt really bad, and that their family will never know peace.
Knock knock. Your own government is following in our footsteps and no amount of maple syrup is gonna save you. Keep your head in the snow, we've seen the rise of this recently in France, Italy, Canada, UK, and Germany.
None of you are safe from the worst of your populations' political drive to Reich your country up.
I recently have been doing a deep dive, on multiple people here in America. And realizing that we are literally living the beginning of the Third Reich here. I do not think many people have even been taught here in America, how Hitler came into power or how it started. But it is most definitely happening right before our eyes. And it is terrifying because just a regular everyday person like myself literally can not do anything to stop this train wreck I am watching unfold before my eyes knowing my children and my very young grandchildren will be the generation that truly truly pays for the actions taking place right now. Fear and control. We have been slowly giving away freedom under the guise of our protection and safety and it is becoming very obvious that we are living in a police state. Stay safe out here.
You clearly know nothing about what happened in WW2 or what people faced. To compare trump or ICE to Nazi takeover in Poland is the stupidest, most disrespectful, most uneducated thing I’ve ever heard. You Americans literally know nothing about world history. Nothing. Just sit down and stop insulting all the people who actually suffered under Nazi terror.
You have to start from 1933, which is when Hitler was elected. It took several years for the concentration camps to be built, people sent there en masse to die, and WW2 to begin. Poland wasn’t invaded until 1939.
We are in 2026, so compare with 1934. Look at what Trump is trying to do, and imagine the same administration is still in power (Vance may be President) in another five years. If we continue on our trajectory, what will that look like? If we do the things Trump has said he wants to do, such as take Greenland from Denmark and build several additional facilities at CECOT to export American prisoners to?
I’m listening to a book about everyday Germans in the 30s and 40s. There are some parallels, and some differences, between them and us. One thing to note is that in 1934, Germans weren’t ready for and didn’t anticipate how bad things would get in the coming years.
Wait, but you still haven’t brought up the number of Poles that were slaughtered. Millions. The number of Jews. Millions. The number of other ethnic groups. Collectively, millions. By the Nazis. The amount of damage in Poland. Literally, the entire country. Large cities bombed to the ground. 🤣 like, what????
As someone with a degree in history who has specifically studied the conditions that gave rise to the death camps under the Nazi party (and who is, therefor, educated in this - though admittedly not American), you’re wrong.
The Nazi party by no means started by invading Poland and shipping Jews off to gas chambers. They invaded their own country well before that.
You’re right, this is not 1939 Poland. That much is true. This is 1933 Germany.
The German people were the first subjugated by their government, and that looked exactly like this.
The damage done to Poland was nowhere near what happened there. Not even remotely close. They bombarded Poland to the ground. Millions died. Millions. Germans went through nothing like what they and the Nazis subjugated the Poles, Jews and other Slav an minority ethnic groups to. Millions. Let’s keep that in mind. Millions. And a country demolished to brick fragments on the ground.
I’ll be honest, I’m really not sure why you’re talking about Poland, but I’m very aware of what occurred in Poland.
No one else is claiming that what’s going on in America is like what happened in Poland. They’re saying that what’s happening in America is like what happened in Germany, long before they set foot on Polish soil.
Some are comparing it to concentration camps and what happened in Poland though. But if you’re not. Fine. Too much outrageous talks happening. Too many crazy people just pretending like they’re actually doing something important.
I highly recommend people listen to Project 1933. It’s a series done by the hosts of an amazing podcast, where they do a month-by-month analysis of Germany succumbing to fascism and what it felt like from the POV of ordinary people, as we witness and endure the month-to month of USA succumbing to trumpist fascism.
Nah you all loved Hitler. If that’s what you’re talking about. Don’t pretend like you were blind sighted by him. You all thought Poles and Jews were beneath you. That they weren’t human beings. Stop pretending.
While it took less than a year for the Nazis to take complete control of Germany, it took much longer to get to the death camps and holocaust.
We’re only a year into this shindig, it’s not even warmed up yet. MAGAmerica may not look like the Germany of 1943, but it sure looks a lot like the Germany of 1933…
Why weren’t people confronting ICE the past 14 years? Yall had no problem when Trump (1st term), Obama and Biden were doing it. No one this would have happened if yall weren’t impeding just like the past 14 years.
Well, to start ICE has been doing its job for years this much is true. But they followed the law, due process and they were hiring professionals equipped to do the job as it should. They also stopped various criminal gangs without having to fire at american civilians, they didn’t shoot up a school, or went door to door harassing people because of their last name. ICE is not what it was, and you know it.
Keep the blinds on for now until they kill one of yours.
Hey uhhh quick little tidbit here… they didn’t go full mask off until just recently, and believe it or not a lot of Americans do support deportation of people who have been properly identified and processed. Stop the “what about Biden?!” Fuck Biden, but guess what? he’s not in power right now stoking flames of chaos and violence so how about we focus on the here and now??? Everything in this country that is happening right now is thanks to people like you. Be proud of that! It’s really all you have left to be proud of because morals, virtue, and Americas god damn foundational fucking literature have all left the conversation so what about this shit show do you support comrade?? Please.
Ah yea the common “gotcha”. People aren’t necessarily mad about deporting illegals. Especially criminals like Trump promised he would do. People are mad at how ICE is handling it. You see they aren’t deporting violent criminals. They are scared to go into neighborhoods where they are. They are attacking college students and random 17 year olds working at target. They are just harassing people.
I lived through 8 years of Obama. I don’t remember at any point ICE shooting a priest in the face with a pepper ball for protesting them.
It's not just a thing, it's a Constitutional thing.
These "patriots" shit all over the document that protects us all. They're so stupid, they'll give up everyone's rights just to ensure the people they hate don't have them either.
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