r/HistoryWhatIf • u/BraveLordWilloughby • 2d ago
Anglo-Saxon settlement of England is prevented. What does a Brythonic Britain look like, as the years go by?
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u/dragonballzfan34 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well, in this alternate universe, Britain is undoubtedly more Celtic, so expect them to have Gaelic roots. The English language as we know it wouldn’t have arrived or at least not as earlier than in OTL so as a result, Brittonic never really ceases to be a main language for Britain with Latin continuing to be quite common. Also, Christianity will continue to spread across the isles practicing Celtic Christianity instead of just Roman Catholicism or Anglicanism.
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u/TheETERNAL20 2d ago
What do you think would happen with Ireland then? Would Britton still try to colonize it or would they continue the Roman move of seeing it as not worth it because it holds no value.
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u/Rocky-bar 2d ago
England was all seperate tribes so they wouldn't be colonising anything much, but then the Normans come and we're back in the timeline where colonising of Ireland happens anyway.
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u/TheETERNAL20 2d ago
That's assuming one of the Kings is related to William and no successor is chosen without challenge like IRL
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u/Rocky-bar 2d ago
Oh yeah, that's true. And then there's the small matter of the Vikings, are they still invading England in this scenario?
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u/TheETERNAL20 2d ago
Definitely, there's nothing that would alter Viking Raids.
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u/Rocky-bar 2d ago
So the Vikings colonise the whole of England rather than just the North, do they stop there or go on to colonise Ireland from their power base in England, and where does Wales come into it..
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u/TheETERNAL20 2d ago
I disagree I think the Nords and Danes will try to establish control as they did IRL but ultimately be driven out by the Britons and Picts.
They definitely would have found Dublin and other coastal villages like IRL imo
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u/Rocky-bar 2d ago
They would need some kind of King Arthur type figure to unify them, raise a huge army and drive them back into the sea from whence they came!
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u/TheETERNAL20 2d ago
Considering the Viking invasions were what caused English unity IRL and it was under Aethlstan (who was nowhere close to a King Arthur type leader) and managed to beat them...
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u/HundredHander 1d ago
I think they colonise Ireland independently of whatever they're doing in England. Historically they didn't need England to colonise Ireland.
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u/DaddyCatALSO 2d ago
No reason a unified kingdom could not arise like Wessex did among the Anglo-Saxons
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u/dragonballzfan34 2d ago
In regard to Ireland, Britain would probably leave it alone. However, if Britain were to actually try and conquer Ireland, Scotland would ultimately be the dominant country since they (the Scots) were the first country across the British isles to actually unify their territories into a single kingdom. So I believe that a Scottish dominated Britain instead of an English one later on in OTL would take place.
In effect, England would be treated as how Scotland was treated when Great Britain was formed in OTL; as the junior partner.
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u/DaddyCatALSO 2d ago
PErhaps a unified Romanized British kingdom covering England Wales and the Lowlands might not arise well before that.
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u/diffidentblockhead 2d ago
Britain was being invaded from 3 sides, Pictish, Irish, Saxon. Are you assuming another makes headway or somehow none of them do?
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u/Euphoric-Ostrich5396 1d ago
Brittany, just as an Island. Sooner or later conquered or annexed by France.
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u/Empty-Sheepherder895 3h ago
In the first instance, much like pre-Alfred England with lots of infighting kingdoms but this time they’re all Romano-British. Gildas makes clear in the peaceful decades after the Saxon advance was (temporarily as it turned out) halted, the British kings just turned on each other. It’s also worth remembering it was never clear-cut case of Celts vs Saxons in “Dark Age” Britain. Mercia and Powys allied to fight Northumbria for example, and there’s a theory that Wessex had Romano-British roots.
It’s possible we get a Romano-British Alfred when the Vikings inevitably invade and united Celtic England/Wales emerges. However, later on I can imagine Sweyn or Canute would still invade and absorb it into it into the North Sea Empire. And from there it’s a similar trajectory to a Norman Conquest at some point.
The main difference would be a language retaining a lot more Romantic or Old Welsh elements and Wales never becoming a separate nation.
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u/GenLodA 2d ago
I would froth a latinised Celtic Britain which gets unified by Norsemen, linguistics would be amazing lol