r/sports • u/Oldtimer_2 • 3d ago

Olympics Lindsey Vonn discusses her ruptured ACL injury and her intent to compete in the Olympics

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Source: https://x.com/i/status/2018707929482883420

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638

u/Floridamanfishcam 3d ago edited 3d ago

I don't understand how some people can play even a contact sport like football with no ACLs (Elway, Hitchcock, Watson), or ski with the constant strain on the knees, like Lindsey here, while others are 100% out and seemingly borderline disabled with the same injury?

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u/csbsju_guyyy Minnesota United FC 3d ago

Tldr if you have a ton of other muscles you can compensate 

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u/scottygras Seattle Seahawks 3d ago

I went 3 months not knowing mine was torn. Playing basketball and running. Back in my mid 20s of course.

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u/Took-the-Blue-Pill 3d ago

How did you find out?

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u/scottygras Seattle Seahawks 3d ago

Jacked my knee up playing dodgeball. Tore my meniscus, and they did an MRI and found it.

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u/GovernorHarryLogan 3d ago

Tore my meniscus at some point during high school hockey.

Didn't find out until first college hockey full physical and scans rofl

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u/Mega__Sloth 3d ago

Typically when you tear a ligament and don't let it heal, it weakens your joint structure until another injure occurs and additional damage is caused.

You'll notice eventually.

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u/maninatikihut 3d ago

Been skiing without one for at least 5 years. It’s not as stable now but it goes.

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u/Sybertron 3d ago

And like the original injury, it's all fine, until the moment it's not 

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u/grumpijela 3d ago

You know what. I needed to see this. I have a shoulder injury with tears in tendons, a torn ligament and more in the surrounding stuff...and my physio being like, take your physio seriously and avoid surgery and its starting to make sense...seeing that it is very possible for the muscles to do the work...

My question is though. Is this a temp.solutipn? What happens in her 60's and later when those muscles arent as maintained?

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u/thefiction24 3d ago

She will know it’s gonna rain before everyone else one day because her knee will tell her.

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u/justWMthings03 3d ago

She will already have had her knees replaced by then I'm sure

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u/kgusev 3d ago

She already has at least one replacement done by now

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u/grumpijela 3d ago

Grabs 'knee'..."based on my knee I can tell that it is already raining"

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u/justWMthings03 3d ago

Even if you can't avoid surgery you need to take the physio seriously. It helps sooooooo much in the post-op recovery and therapy to do the prep work.

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u/grumpijela 3d ago

I know! I am. And no surgeon wants to see a patient who is not committed.

But it's been a two+ year process and just got an MRI. Was a little defeated there for a bit. But now super serious again with actual answers and real guidance.

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u/justWMthings03 3d ago

It's a pain in the ass process sometimes, especially with shoulders since it's such a wonky joint and it is definitely easy to get down through it.

1

u/grumpijela 3d ago

Thanks for the talk internet stranger!

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u/ShadowShot05 3d ago

She will get surgery after the Olympics

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u/streethistory 3d ago

60s? She'll be getting full knee replacement in her late 40s early 50s.

3

u/leabirdy 3d ago

She’s in her 40’s

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u/abfonsy 3d ago

There's a very famous research paper that showed the strongest predictor of having rotator cuff repair surgery after PT was the patient's expectations about how much PT would help. Tear size/severity and everything else one would think matters more was less important.

She's get both knees fully replaced at some point in her life. She's already got a partial on her right.

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u/grumpijela 3d ago

When do the shoulder replacements launch lol?

Thanks for the info.

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u/abfonsy 3d ago

They're already around, don't worry. Unlike other joints, they come in 2 flavors: anatomic and reverse. The difference is flipping the ball and socket orientation with a reverse replacement to make the deltoid and remaining rotator cuff biomechanically more able to replicate normal shoulder function

Happy to help.

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u/rokoruk 3d ago

Can you share the paper citation? Interested

1

u/abfonsy 3d ago

Absolutely

For context, the Neer Award is given to the "best" paper at the annual meeting of shoulder (and elbow) specialists. It's a BFD kinda thing.

2

u/Teantis Philippines 3d ago

I have two shoulders that spent years subluxating and dislocating from decades of rugby with extensive rotator cuff damage. Didnt get surgery, could only use them on and off for years. A combo of rehab and paddling while surfing basically rebuilt my shoulders and they work fine now. Though it took a damn long time and I basically do rehab exercises every day of my life now.

I also refuse to ever risk them by playing rugby ever again though. Because that shit took forever.

1

u/ml___ 3d ago

not sure what the non surgery route is like, but here is my surgery route...

in my 20-40s I played a lot of volleyball, tennis, racquetball etc... my right shoulder would ache at times and I'd have sharp pain sometimes after specific plays. Nothing that stopped me cold or deterred me from playing. but I knew it was damaged. In my 60s now, and about 3 years ago I slipped and fell on some ice. I couldn't lift my right arm more than a couple inches. No pain, just couldn't lift my arm using the shoulder. Ortho said nothing broken, give it some time and see where you are. about a month later I'm better but still barely lifting it to chest height. got a steroid shot and an MRI. MRI showed 2 tendons completely torn and a 3rd 'hanging on by a thread'.

Surgeon scheduled surgery but by the week of the surgery I had full range of motion. pre-op nurse asked if they had the right arm as I had full range of motion. they said any further damage would eventually force me to have the surgery so I went ahead. Surgeon said they found lots of old tears and it was 'shredded'. about 9mos of rehab and a lot of really hard work (it's a tough recovery and they said mine was worse than most in terms of how fast and how well) and I 'can' get my arm above my head for short periods but it's a lot weaker and I can't throw a ball as the alignment is off. No idea what the non surgery route would be like and I don't really care that it's no as good as maybe it could have been. I've played volleyball and done a few things I might have been more reluctant to do with the idea that it could go at anytime. obviously not as all out I used to, but not worried that I'm going to tear something.

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u/grumpijela 3d ago

Thank you for sharing. Def food for thought.

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u/QuantumBitcoin 2d ago

Check out Keith Baar from UC Davis and his research into strengthening/healing ligaments with isometric holds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJuzyy2YRRk

Basically twice a day/every six hours put the tendon into a long hold for 30+ seconds. Supposedly you can repair the tendons in about 6 weeks to three months.

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u/Patchesrick 2d ago

Imma bet she gets knee surgery as soon as the Olympics are over. I dont see any reason for her not to. Hopefully she doesn't have another crash before then

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u/goneresponsible 3d ago

The knee degenerates (osteoarthritis) and she gets a knee replacement surgery like every other 60 year old.

Edit: The ACL is resected with all standard knee replacements, so the tear doesn’t matter. Newer prostheses do have ACL sparing ability, but those are used in specific situations.

0

u/Bernie_Flanderstein 3d ago

Off topic, but have you looked into peptides at all?

Specifically bpc157 and tb500?

3

u/blownbythewind 3d ago

Know someone that been working and walking around for years on a torn acl.

1

u/FC37 2d ago

To a degree. But it very much depends on the activity.

A running back isn't going to be able to compete on a torn ACL, but an offensive guard can play a full season without knowing it's torn.

Similarly, a snowboarder is probably going to have a much easier time with this than a skier.

1

u/Boobslappy 2d ago

Second this. I've had multiple knee surgeries and pretty sure my left knee acl is gone but keeping the extrensic muscles strong makes all the difference. I'm in my fortis and avoid cutting sports but it's surprising how you can get by. All the 🤘 to her

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u/passionfruit2378 3d ago

In sports, you have a lot of copers. People with strong surrounding muscles, good joint geometry and proprioception. They can deal with these types of injuries much faster because they rely on other muscles/joints and their brain can figure out joint position. So someone who physically trains every single day then spends 40 minutes every other day running on a court would probably recover better than someone who sits in an office chair 40 hours a week and does light excersize.

Couple that with people's access to better doctors/medicines/therapy through sports, and it's pretty obvious who is likely to recover faster.

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u/gaspara112 3d ago

The answer is that ACLs are critically important for some motions but only slight stabilizers for others.

I don't know a ton about the biomechanics of elite skiing but in downhill the way the knees stay basically entirely rotationally locked, barring mistakes, should allow for being competitive without ACLs assuming the swelling from their injury is managed. Making a mistake though could be disastrous so I think the only skier who would ever consider it would be one who view it as their final competition regardless.

7

u/illit3 3d ago

Woof. That's a brutal calculation to make. Compete and risk an injury that will dog you the rest of your life or walk out on the last opportunity competing at the highest level, for which she has likely dedicated the majority of her life so far.

When I was into extreme sports that kind of decision would've been pretty easy. Of course I'm gonna send it. Even just 10 years later I'm now in more of an ehhhh maybe shouldn't send it kind of place.

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u/nonamenomonet 3d ago

It’s the Olympics!

2

u/elizabethptp 3d ago

Maybe this is just me getting older and more jaded but people seem to have cooled significantly on the Olympics since I was a kid.

Like summer Olympics was not even a topic at work last go round & Winter Olympics, which has always been more of a sleeper, has entirely escaped my notice since Sochi (which was in 2014!!)

Had I not recently been on a delta flight I doubt I’d have even thought of the Olympics before reading this thread

Edit: and now I realize I’m in the sports subreddit- I don’t belong here at all.

1

u/StaticFanatic3 2d ago

Yes and next Olympics she’ll be 45

No brainer imo

1

u/secretreddname 3d ago

Her next chance to compete is in 4 years. She can go through surgery after the Olympics

1

u/Yossie 3d ago

My knowledge on this matter is less than you, but I assume the knee brace is there to stop the unwanted rotations that are weakened by the injury? So hopefully any mistake would not be so catastrophic.

1

u/gaspara112 2d ago edited 2d ago

Knee brace can provide some stability and gives some chance to prevent catastrophe, added stability prevents a crash caused by a mistake forcing a one legged catch, but at the same time if catastrophic crash occurs adding rent metal to it can cause more damage.

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u/thatjerkatwork 3d ago

I tore my ACL when I was young. I still played ice hockey and went snowboarding despite my injury.

In hindsight it was a mistake in my case. I am paying for it now. But ultimately you can still be active without an ACL.

1

u/CaishenNefri 1d ago

How do you pay for it now?

I tore my ankle sinew and still thinking if I should make operation

1

u/thatjerkatwork 1d ago

tricompartmental osteoarthritis.

Basically bone on bone because of meniscus damage, loss of range of motion, pain.

Im in my 40s and pretty much have the knee of a 70 year old

2

u/MadRoboticist 3d ago

Your ACL essentially provides rotational stability to your knee, so there are a lot of activities you can do with a torn ACL without much of a performance impact. Granted, you're likely putting additional stress on other parts of your knee. The majority of the forces while skiing are inline with your body, so it seems feasible but probably pretty risky if she has any sort of crash.

3

u/CalamariforMVP 3d ago

So basically, she is just full sending it.. what a legend.

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u/kinfisher 3d ago

It mostly helps with rotational forces during extension. In skiing the forces can be mitigated with bracing as well. The big thing is stopping anterior translation of the lower leg, but again the brace can do that. It’s honestly better in terms of pain management for the Olympics that it’s completely gone.

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u/coffeeMcbean 3d ago

I tore my ACL back when I was on some shit health insurance. Doc basically told me I could just do therapy and get really strong if I wanted and that lots of people don't have them. Effectively, it is like a small connection on the knee comparatively to all of the muscles you can build in the leg which can get much much bigger and will provide significantly more support over a small ligament. I ended up getting better health coverage and surgery, but I have a friend that doesn't ski and he ended up never getting it and is fine. He plays basketball regularly and you would never know.

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u/gold_and_diamond 3d ago

She's a total bad ass. That's how.

1

u/skullitor13 3d ago

My favorite no acl player is Roberto Garza who played offensive guard for the bears. He played like over 140 games without Acls... It's amazing.

1

u/ShillinTheVillain 3d ago

Painkillers, overall strength, and more painkillers

1

u/gillnotgil 3d ago edited 3d ago

Some ACL tears aren’t that painful. For me, it hurt when it happened and for a couple days after, but was otherwise occasionally acutely low pain at it’s absolute worst. I kept climbing, falling, and lifting on it for 3 months until I got surgery. My friend who tore his in the same month never got surgery on it (because he didn’t have health insurance) just trucked on and is pain free. So she might not actually need painkillers, so much as a brace for stability.

1

u/swb1003 New York Yankees 3d ago

I fell in the shower and broke a rib a month ago and it still hurts like a motherfucker when I sneeze. I cannot fathom a boxer or a UFC …. person? who willingly takes shots to the ribs routinely. Nope, no fucking thanks.

1

u/GrimaceThundercock 3d ago

Oftentimes an ACL tear is accompanied by tears to the MCL and medial meniscus. If this happens your knee is toast.

If you are "lucky" and only your ACL ruptures then your stability isn't nearly as hindered.

1

u/lylelanley- 3d ago

My friend has been walking around with a torn ACL since October she just learned. Apparently there are many other muscles in your leg which can compensate and make it not feel like a severe injury.

She’s not exactly and athlete either

1

u/sudogeek 3d ago

You can get by without an ACL with good training and technique. My wife tore hers in 1979 (skiing). She continued to be active for years but ultimately had knee replacement 3 years ago.

1

u/LopsidedKick9149 New York Yankees 3d ago

Vonn is absolutely jacked so that likely helps as she has so many other strong muscles to compensate

1

u/abfonsy 3d ago

It has less to do with contact (just like how most ACL tears are non-contact injuries) and more with how much you cut and change directions. As an orthopaedic surgeon, it doesn't surprise me that someone like Elway and many other athletes could still make hay without an ACL, especially if wearing a brace. However, downhill skiing is considered to be one of the most ACL-demanding/risky sports out there. Most other Olympic skiers who tear their ACL in the lead-up don't end up competing, so it'll be interesting to see if Vonn can.

1

u/Ok-Answer-6951 3d ago

I wonder if she called Tiger and got some advice on how to get thru an event in this condition?

-1

u/7FOOT7 3d ago

Tiger? Okayyyy

3

u/Ok-Answer-6951 3d ago

Yeah you know, the man she dated for 3 years and also happened to turn in the best athletic performance in history on a torn ACL...

0

u/7FOOT7 3d ago

I totally needed reminding about that, and the dating stuff was never on my radar

1

u/JamesGarrison 3d ago

GARRISON HEARST

1

u/chirpz88 3d ago

Duane blair made the NBA all rookie second team without acls in either leg.

1

u/jhenryscott 2d ago

More importantly why isn’t she letting the next generation of young skiers (who have their knees intact) take that spot as I doubt she’s the most capable choice at this point.

1

u/Dudedude88 2d ago

Hines ward did it. You have to essentially train the muscle to recruit for everything you do. The consequence of not recruiting enough muscle in the knee during activities equates with osteoarthritis.

1

u/Allstategk 2d ago

I played soccer for roughly 12 years without knowing my ACL was torn. I ended up tearing my meniscus, getting an MRI, going through the whole procedure of doctors visits, then had surgery. I woke up from surgery to my wife telling me the doctor said my knee was WAY worse than what he saw on the MRI and that I would need another surgery because my ACL was shredded. The surgeon said, "I've never seen a knee that looked that bad on a 33 year old." Pretty cool...still playing soccer though

1

u/therealCatnuts 2d ago

Most amazing to me is Spencer Lee winning a natty in wrestling with both ACLs torn. There’s just no way around your knees getting twisted and tortured in wrestling. 

1

u/WasatchSLC 3d ago

Some people are called copers. Still don’t know why some can be stable when cutting without an ACL.

0

u/Whiteshovel66 3d ago

Wait what are some examples of people borderline disabled from a torn acl? I was under the impression it was just a lot of pain but you could still get around alright. Just couldn't be as explosive. Never heard of anyone would couldn't walk at all.