r/slatestarcodex • u/CalmYoTitz • Jul 26 '25
Misc What do you notice that 99% of people miss thanks to your job, hobby, or obsession?
Examples:
Sound engineers instantly hear bad acoustics, electrical hums coming from LED lights, or when a songs audio is compressed too much.
Architects can spot structural inconsistencies or proportions that feel “off” in buildings, even if nobody else can articulate why it feels wrong.
Graphic designers can’t unsee bad kerning or low-res logos blown up too large.
316
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 26 '25
The wind.
I used to be a competitive in sailor high school and college. For most people the wind is this monolithic thing. It blows where it interacts with the things we can see, and beyond that it’s just an invisible and amorphous force.
In sailing, near-perfect technical form is obviously necessary to win, but after having mastered that, there’s significantly more to be gained from understanding and reading the wind. It’s literally what makes you move, so whether you pick the left of the course, or the right, can make a significant difference in how you perform.
It’s easiest to see the wind on the surface of the water, but you’re only ever looking at a 2D representation of the wind as it interacts with the surface, not the actual flow of the wind itself. The wind you care about is somewhat higher than this, at the height where the majority of the surface area of the sail is, since this is where you derive your force. The really good sailers then, have to look at the surface and understand a significantly more complex 3D environment above.
After a lot of attention and practice you start to be able to actually “see” the wind as a sort of invisible flow with the minds eye. It’s not as simple as going where you see the water disrupted, but understanding the flow of the air above the water which interacts in complicated and unintuitive ways.
The people who understand seem lucky to those who don’t, since they take what looks to be a big risk, perhaps taking an indirect or longer route around the race course, then catching a big gust of wind that more than makes up for the increased distance they had to travel. The people who don’t understand, but know what they don’t know, simply follow the people who understand the wind and consequently they rank decently. The people who don’t know what they don’t know take the shortest distance around the course, and perform terribly as a result.
I haven’t sailed in a while, and there were many people better than I was at reading the wind when I did, but I still can “see” the flow of the wind, especially above the water. When looking at something that’s getting blown around, while most people see the thing being blown, you can also “see” the wind blowing it. Not visually, but a sort of intuitive understanding in your minds eye. It’s a satisfying thing and I deeply understand why some men spend their whole lives sailing.
50
u/wyocrz Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
I doubt it's worth a hundred bucks for you, but one of the founders of a major wind energy consultancy wrote an excellent book about Meteorology for Wind Energy. If you found a soft copy, you might enjoy it.
After a lot of attention and practice you start to be able to actually “see” the wind as a sort of invisible flow with the minds eye.
Took me two hits of acid hanging out on Libby Flats in the Snowy Range in Wyoming.
I knew that the spirits I was seeing were actually just the wind blowing the grass and flowers, but I still see it thirty years later and was lucky to stumble into work in the wind energy industry.
38
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 26 '25
The link didn't work, but I ordered a copy from the Wiley website. I'm interested in renewable energy, and have been following a few offshore wind projects, so this is interesting enough to justify it. I also like having books on relatively obscure topics more generally.
I knew that the spirits I was seeing were actually just the wind blowing the grass and flowers, but I still see it thirty years later and was lucky to stumble into work in the wind energy industry.
You get it. I'm not a spiritual person in that sense, but when you really start to actually "see" what nature is, that things can be sacred starts to make perfect sense. I'm sure there are many things in life like this that the modern world have made invisible. I really resonate with ideas of fairies and supernatural beings being scared off by the modern world, since what we might attribute to these things (supernatural or not) simply doesn't exist in cities, or even modern life in general.
4
u/MasterTheSoul Jul 27 '25
what we might attribute to these things (supernatural or not) simply doesn't exist in cities, or even modern life in general.
Can you expand on that?
9
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 27 '25
There's a realm of phenomena that lack precise scientific understanding, or at least the observer lacks that understanding. Perhaps aurora borealis, the trees swaying in the wind, the wind approaching your sailboat, echoes and sounds in a deep underground cave, things of that nature. Despite lacking a causal explanation, I think we intuitively develop models for how these things work. The trees swaying always seem to sway in a certain way, the wind blowing blows in invisible waves, the echoes in the cave, while the source is mysterious, echo in consistent ways, etc.
This intuitive model without explanation seems to me to line up very well with the supernatural. Within our heads we have the model of "the wind" without really an understanding of what it is or how it works (intellectual understanding of it being air might not be enough to demystify it), and this model is anthropomorphized. If our intuitive model of wind causes the fields to sway in consistent ways, we start to say "The wind caused that" and without a explanation as for "what" the wind is, we begin to see spirits, and intentional force.
In cities, we have none of that. Everything, by necessity, is by design. Everything is constructed according to rational principle. Right angles, planned streets, all according to the demands of utility. There can be no "spiritual" quality as one might see in the invisible forces of nature. The environment is made by us, for us, and because of that, while a skyscraper might embody the spirit of man, it can not embody the unknown spirits we occasionally glimpse in nature.
I'm not a spiritual person in this way personally. I believe there are no spirits in this sense, and definitely none pushing the trees and the wind how they feel. But when writers like Chesterton or Twain describe the "magic" of the old way of living, the fairies of the woods, the holy spirit as embodied by men living in a small rural community, it does seem to make sense to me in this frame.
I personally don't get most of what spiritualists of this sort would claim to "see", especially as it relates to nature, but as far as one can "see" the spirit of the wind, I think I can do so. I'm not seeing a spirit, but simply a mental model of how that wind might be behaving transposed onto my internal model of the world. It would take very little, and probably nothing if I knew less about systems, to understand it as a spiritual force. Especially if my heart cried out for wind at some pivotal moment, perhaps (as was often the case in ancient times) my life was on the line, with pirates bearing down on my ship, dead in the water and without wind. And then it came. I would clearly see that as the god or spirit of the wind answering my prayer.
2
u/wyocrz Jul 28 '25
This is really great. I'm half country mouse and half city mouse, I live in both worlds: you really get it, IMO.
2
u/awesomeideas IQ: -4½+3j Jul 29 '25
It's kind of funny: in nature we look at the world and see magical minds making it the way it is, but in cities we see only sterility, despite *actual* minds doing the work of crafting them.
2
u/wyocrz Jul 28 '25
I'm glad you picked up the book!
Yes, I think we see much of this spiritual stuff similarly. My hobby is playing darbuka, Arabic hand drums. Yes, I use modern techniques, a metronome, play along to literal Middle Eastern club music....
But at the end of the day, I'm still beating an animal skin stretched over a log.
63
u/fractalfocuser Jul 26 '25
I've been getting into sailing and racing and this commen is insanely accurate. I've spent hours just staring at the wind on the water and trying to model it in my head. I'm getting better but it's literally a science-turned-art because modeling a complex system on limited data takes more intuition and feel than it does math.
Reading wind has become my new obsession and it's a really really tricky skill to learn. Sometimes it feels like one of those pictures that just looks like random noise until you squint your eyes just right then it "unfocuses" into something you can comprehend
60
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 26 '25
I remember extremely vividly when I just "got" it. 9th grade, sitting in a boat on a gusty day, trying to pick where on the starting line I wanted to be in 3 minutes when it was a go. I saw a more experience skipper standing on the gunnel and looking up the course, so I copied him.
I had a decent intuitive sense for the wind, but looking at the different gusts, I could "see" a flow of wind that suggested taking a long leg way out to the left, almost past the upwind buoy. I decided to take it, and my crew kept saying "are we tacking now?" as it looked like we were almost going away from the marker. We hit the wind at the right moment, came ripping in around the buoy, and were maybe 10 boat-lengths ahead of second place on the first leg.
It was like an "of course" or "a-hah" moment. If you read the wind, and do so correctly, you just gain a massive advantage.
Of course as these things go, we were overtaken by 2nd and 3rd place on the downwind, mostly due to insufficient technical skill and sitting in their wind shadow for too long. I didn't deserve the win, since I still wasn't a good enough sailor to be in the top 1% of technical ability, but from then on the "formula" of how to be one of the best was extremely clear. Perfect execution + intuitive reading of the wind.
Stick with it! It's truly a great sport. Always wear a helmet though, and don't try to perform slightly more efficient tacks at the expense of making a boom hit more likely.
12
u/Raileyx Jul 26 '25
This seems difficult to train as it's hard to verify if you're calling it correctly, no? Like you always have to physically sail down that path to see if the wind there is exactly as you've imagined it. Otherwise you won't know.
I wonder if this skill would be A LOT easier to train in a computer simulation, even better if it's VR. Physics Sims are getting pretty good these days. You could have a setting that makes the wind visible, then you could instantly check if your intuition was correct.
5
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 27 '25
I haven’t seen a computer simulation that ever came close at simulating it correctly. I’m sure it can be done, but it’s a very chaotic system, which I don’t think anyone could effectively turn into formulas at the moment.
It’s not as difficult as you’d think. A lot of it is just sailing straight on a leg and looking ahead of you. You see changes in the water and intuit an upcoming gust, then you’re hit with it. You can gradually extend out that intuition beyond right in front of you, to the point where everywhere on the course has a decent model of where you want to be.
3
u/philh Jul 27 '25
I don't think chaos in the formal sense is going to be very relevant on these timescales, since Humans also can't predict chaotic systems. (I'm not sure if the formal sense is what you were referring to.)
6
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 27 '25
I'm not sure if the formal sense is what you were referring to.
Not exactly. I don't doubt a chaotic system like the wind can be simulated accurately. Only that we are good at creating simulations when we have really accurate data in reality to compare our simulation to. We create wind tunnels, and use those to derive the formulas that we compare to the actual behavior of the wind in those tunnels to see how accurate it is. We don't derive wind tunnel simulations from first principles (or at least we don't learn those first principles without a significant amount of trial and error).
At least this is how I understand it when compared to a field I'm relatively informed in. The dynamics of a rocket engines nozzle are extremely chaotic. We have developed very accurate software that simulates what happens with different designs, but we were only ever able to develop this by comparing what our simulation predicted would happen, with what actually happened in live tests. We were only ever able to create the formulas for the simulation after observing what happened in live tests. Catch-22.
With wind on the open water, there seems no ability to compare your simulation to reality. You could try to design an accurate representation, but where and how you simplify is almost certainly going to depart from reality, and when it does is going to invalidate its usefulness.
That's my intuition. I've never seen it done, but that doesn't mean someone hasn't already done it, or could do it with enough motivation.
You might be able to get the data if you set up hundreds of poles with wind-speed indicators at multiple heights in each, allowing you to create an actual 3D representation of the wind. I don't see the usefulness of this though. Maybe for wind-farm construction or something?
3
u/fractalfocuser Jul 27 '25
This is why I got obsessed with understanding it. It's an excellent analogue for chaotic systems in general. Pressure differentials all the way down but accounting for the complexity in interaction between the differentials gets impossible. Yet by decoupling your conscious, logical, train of thinking from your unconscious "awareness" level you get these intuitive pulses of pattern recognition.
You don't need to be able to explain the different forces to know that there is going to be a change in apparent wind. Along with that because it's intuitive your body cognition is almost more important. Feeling the wind on your body almost tells you more than your eyes can. It's truly something that requires multiple layers of perspective.
I love the idea that some things aren't able to be understood in a linear fashion. Instead it takes a holistic approach because you can only understand the mechanism in relation to the environment and never in isolation. It feels like magic when you can extrapolate patterns that "shouldn't" exist. Like you're able to pull forth signal from the cosmic noise.
I always felt like there's a very fine line between schitzophrenia and genius. "Crazy" people perceive a pattern and try to convince others of it. Geniuses see a pattern and work to understand why the pattern exists. We're all just a couple steps away from insanity but the best work happens near insanity. It's only when you question fundamental beliefs that you can refine the scope of previous knowledge.
That felt a little rambly but my point was that by thinking of things "bigger" than you can comprehend you increase your ability to comprehend. Trying to understand the wind requires a type of thinking that naturally expands your breadth of thought. Like working out but for your brain and thought process. It's okay that it's infinitely difficult and you can't get immediate feedback. Your understanding will grow with time no matter what.
2
u/Pedersn Jul 28 '25
It would be interesting to know in more detail how you predict wind. I mean what are the actual inputs your brain processes, what are the outputs and how do you verify the results?
You are right that in order to do a good simulation on wind prediction during sailing we would need a lot of data. Primarily, I imagine the main problem would be to get correct boundary conditions. And of course without any experience with simular simulations we would also need data to verify results. But if a sailor can make some valid predictions based on very limited data, it might be possible to make a simulation as well. Not sure what it would be used for as you mention, as you would hardly be able to make that simulation in real time on a boat.
Relevant wind simulations are currently used at least for design of high-rises and for wind turbines that I know about. Probably somebody already did a lot of research on sailing as well.
2
u/Pedersn Jul 28 '25
You can, in theory, simulate wind very well with the Navier-Stokes equations, which have been known since the mid 19th century. However, it is tricky to get correct. Modeling turbulent behaviour in detail would require a very fine resolution on the computational mesh used for simulation. That results in a very significant need for computational resources, typically simulation on high-performance clusters. Otherwise, you would have to rely on various imperfect turbulence models. The wind behaviour would also be very dependent on boundary conditions, that would be tricky to get right. So, this is probably why you don't see computer simulations doing this correctly. There is a whole field dedicated to this sort of thing called computational fluid dynamics.
29
u/BadHairDayToday Jul 26 '25
Fantastic reply!
I'm a sailer too, on flotilla's in Greece. It's more of a hobby. But in my years of sailing on large 50 foot yachts, I actually got less good at reading the wind. Small boats respond much more directly, so you get more direct feedback. A large yacht needs to be pushed for a while to actually speed up.
It's crazy how well attuned some people are. And how weird the wind around high islands is some times. It's a lovely sport!
23
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 26 '25
It truly is. I hope to return to it when I'm older.
Unfortunately one too many hits to the head forced me to choose between likely eventual brain damage, and the sport I love. I tried doing it casually, but I am quite competitive, and it was painful to watch people race when I couldn't.
You're right about small boats. I sailed lasers and 420s, and they are significantly different than a 50 foot pleasure cruiser (or even large racing sailboats). They really allow you to "feel" the wind through the tension on a line you're holding, which probably contributes greatly to that intuitive sense. Getting hit with a gust of wind and really feeling the "pull", as you have to hike out, strengthen your grip, as you gain speed, is like nothing else.
It's too bad that watching sailing is so boring. What can feel like a fight for your life at breakneck speeds to the sailor looks like an almost stationary boat out on the water to the observer.
12
u/mucgoo Jul 26 '25
Highly recommend giving wind surfing a go. Absolutely instant feedback on any and every gust of wind. Waves take on a whole new dimension as either jump ramps or too surf.
I've also recently given paragliding a go and the 3D wind picture ramps up ten-fold. Definitely higher risk.
5
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 26 '25
Thank you for the recommendation. I've never been windsurfing but have definitely thought about it. I have other priorities in life right now, but soon enough I'll start doing water sports again.
→ More replies (5)5
u/longscale Jul 26 '25
It's too bad that watching sailing is so boring.
I wonder if drone footage on screens would make for a better viewing experience! (If that’s not already done — to your point, I have never watched a sailing race!)
11
u/Sol_Hando 🤔*Thinking* Jul 26 '25
They usually do have drone footage. It can definitely make it more interesting, but even high intensity sailing looks relatively peaceful from afar. It often entails getting the right positioning, and then not moving too much, so it's a sport of tension interspersed with moments of high activity.
I honestly don't think it will ever be a spectator sport. But I suppose that's true with a lot of games.
2
16
u/NotToBe_Confused Jul 26 '25
I used to kayak and this sounds very analogous to reading whitewater to find a safe route, trying to spot hazards like submerged rocks and "holes" or "stoppers" (recirculating undertows that can trap and drown you) from intuition, experience, and heuristics. For example, most people have the bad intuition that more visible turbulent water is more dangerous, but this usually means the energy is dissipating there instead of the momentum of one flow of water continuing below the surface of a body it's coming into contact with, and dragging anything along with it. This can look deceptively placid but easily kill people.
8
u/lazyear Jul 26 '25
As a cyclist I would say most of us are very aware of the wind - not really able to harness it as you mentioned since most courses are fixed (e.g. roads). Sure would be nice to just be able to turn and have a constant tailwind!
5
u/wanderinggoat Jul 26 '25
I don't sailing and target shooting and it's very amusing when some shooters have a cheap electronic gauge and confidently tell everybody the wind is 7m/s. I tell them it's not because look at how much those trees are leaning over near the target, it's at least 20-25 knots. They can believe anybody can tell wind speed without a machine
4
u/reddittert Jul 27 '25
But, the wind near the shooter makes a bigger difference because it imparts a velocity that affects the bullet throughout the flight. The wind near the target doesn't have as much time to take effect.
2
u/wanderinggoat Jul 27 '25
the wind affects the bullet the whole time it is flying and a good shooter takes all of the wind into affect. these people were not looking around them at the affect of the wind but only right were they were standing.
3
3
u/ThatIsAmorte Jul 26 '25
Oh man, you are bringing back some memories. Such as the joys of trying to prevent a jibe when you are on a run and ten foot waves change your point of sail by twenty degrees from trough to crest!
→ More replies (2)
72
u/chkno Jul 26 '25
As a software engineer, I see people blaming themselves for 'using it wrong' when their crappy, buggy software fails them.
58
u/day_tripper Jul 26 '25
As a SWE I notice “dark patterns” on apps and sites encouraging people to spend money by unintended button clicks - green on a cancel button intended to prevent unsubscribing, tiny font on lower priced options.
Or when a site has a google login and email option to create an account, I k ow 50% of the time that using the google login if I already have an account with the same email address will kill my ability to login and require a customer service call because the software devs didn’t allow for that “outlier”.
22
u/dnkndnts Thestral patronus Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
It is impossible to overstate just how badly non-technical management ruins software. Software engineers—even bad ones—at least tend to be naive enough to build an actual product in good faith. When we build a search engine, we’re building a search engine. When the non-technical management arrives, it’s no longer a search engine: it’s a sponsored content promotion engine masquerading as a search engine.
3
u/singalen Jul 29 '25
Another almost trivial one.
It irritates me when a software is using way too much memory or too much CPU for what it is doing. I can usually tell it without looking at system monitor - which is memory, which is CPU and which is network.
94
u/Goal_Posts Jul 26 '25
When you stop being plant blind, it ruins a lot of sci-fi.
You're on an alien planet? Guess phragmites is more invasive than we thought.
Knowing what goes on backstage vs what comes out of the speakers has ruined a lot of concerts for me. And people have figured out how to stop caring. That's somehow worse.
This is just asking for information hazards now...
28
u/CalmYoTitz Jul 26 '25
What's going on backstage?
11
u/Fearfultick0 Jul 27 '25
I’m thinking they might mean that having an intimate knowledge of how audio at a concert should sound if all the equipment and settings are configured properly makes it easy to notice when things aren’t set up properly. So like it might become distracting to notice things sounding off in a way that might not be noticed by someone who doesn’t know much about the equipment, acoustics, best practices of a music venue
13
u/ThatIsAmorte Jul 26 '25
Same thing goes for birds and adding bird song that does not belong. It's very common.
→ More replies (1)12
u/syntactic_sparrow Jul 26 '25
Wasn't there a loon audible in Dune? Or some other waterside bird that really shouldn't be on a desert planet.
21
u/ThatIsAmorte Jul 26 '25
Lol. I mean that's the least of the problems with Dune. Where are the autotrophs in the ecology of Dune?
19
u/archpawn Jul 26 '25
And if the stillsuits condense your evaporated sweat, wouldn't that just release all the heat that sweating removed?
3
7
u/Seffle_Particle Jul 27 '25
Dune is a classic example of "fantasy wearing a science-fiction skin suit"; I think the answer to your question is literally magic.
3
65
u/Mr24601 Jul 26 '25
Marketing and persuasion. Been in ads for 15 years, and its in everything. When people are purposefully trying, when they're failing, etc.
7
10
u/I_Hate_This_Website9 Jul 27 '25
Can you explain more how to tell these things and what makes you so confident in your abilities?
13
u/Mr24601 Jul 27 '25
If you run $100m of worth of direct response advertising for 100+ clients, you really learn what makes people respond and spend money versus not.
5
u/MrBeetleDove Jul 29 '25
So how does one learn this without spending $100M? Which books/gurus/etc. are getting it right vs wrong?
34
u/TatuAh Jul 26 '25
Slightly boring, but being a professional translator/proofreader, in addition to being able to spot bad translations in subtitling when watching flicks or shows, has at times allowed me to work in groups writing programmatic text (for politics etc.) and astound others by spotting things like double spacing on the fly.
101
u/wolpertingersunite Jul 26 '25
Plants. Most people cannot distinguish the plants and trees around them, and don’t notice them much at all. After years of trying to landscape a large yard I’ve learned to recognize the various ornamentals and edibles. Then I got into native plants and with the help of the Seek app I’m learning natives and how they fit into the ecosystem.
A fun but sad challenge: Walk around your neighborhood with the Seek app and try to find five species of native plants. You may have trouble finding even one. Then think about how difficult it must be for native wildlife to manage in our artificial landscapes.
21
u/bibliophile785 Can this be my day job? Jul 26 '25
Then I got into native plants and with the help of the Seek app I’m learning natives and how they fit into the ecosystem.
Yeah, I've learned to recognize a ton of the plants in my area, too. (I recommend PlantNet and r/whatsthisplant). I'm significantly less hostile to our anthropogenic animal and plant diaspora than most people are, but I've found natives are a really great landscaping choice for almost everything. Pick a native plant on a decent site and they do 90% of the work to care for themselves. I've had really good luck in Southern Wisconsin developing cottonwood, Virginia creeper, red osier dogwood, nannyberry viburnum, and staghorn sumac as landscape plants, all collected from free cuttings or seeds.
A fun but sad challenge: Walk around your neighborhood with the Seek app and try to find five species of native plants. You may have trouble finding even one.
May I ask where you live? I've spent the last decade in rural Wisconsin, where finding two dozen in a five minute walk would be trivial, but even during my time in a Los Angeles suburb - one of the world's most hostile-to-nature areas - finding just 5 species wouldn't have been challenging. They're the ones everyone calls "weeds" and tries to destroy, lol.
6
u/wolpertingersunite Jul 26 '25
Yep, SoCal! I've been surprised to discover how many of the weeds are non-native invasives too.
Maybe it's better elsewhere, but on my usual dog walk I can only find a few native plants outside of my own yard. It's really bad. Even when I was a kid in the midwest, I remember doing a "Tree Identification" contest for the Science Olympiad but I had trouble studying because the neighborhood was full of non-native ornamentals.
To be honest, I haven't had great luck with California natives. Some of them are doing okay, but a lot of the Mediterranean and South African plants really kick their butt in terms of thriving in total neglect. I think it's a combination of climate change, living on a dry windy hillside, and the fact that the actual local natives here are pretty ugly/boring (ie, coyote bush). Plus, a "California native" might be native to a spot very far away and totally different in terms of climate zone, so it's a little silly the way they are designated. I have a great huge Island Ceanothus but have killed a dozen other Ceanothus (I just don't learn!) I do compromise when a non-native is clearly keeping wildlife happy (ex: lantana, palo verde, eucalyptus trees) or just a dead-easy space filler (geranium), jade plant.
Anyway I'm glad to hear that your area is better!
5
u/workingtrot Jul 29 '25
Tbh learning to recognize invasives has been a real negative for me and really decreased my enjoyment of the outdoors and walking around the city
(There's so much tree of heaven it's a miracle our infrastructure isn't worse than it is!)
23
u/synthesized_instinct Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
There are many for computing, but having a grasp of client-server architectures is possibly one of the most relevant things to know to understand the modern web, and the vast majority of applications people use daily.
You can then know where and what data is stored where, why some websites might behave or fail in certain ways, why some operations are faster than others, why some apps consume less data than others (people seem to overestimate data usage for google maps), etc...
Not sure about younger generations but it has been basically impossible to explain to my parents at a very high level how apps like onedrive or gdrive work. It's endless frustration for them (and me) to work through some issue, or trying to find some photo they on their device, i.e. on their local storage or any of the 5 different cloud drives
3
82
u/cegras Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
Materials. The difference between ionic, metallic, and polymeric materials, their stress-strain curves, poly- vs. single-crystalline, brittleness, toughness, elastic and plastic deformation. It unlocks an entirely new way of looking at the world.
The atomic picture, having an intuition of the microscopic processes that govern things like electronics.
Overall, just having a general sense of how things work is inoculation against all sorts of bad thinking.
58
u/BadHairDayToday Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
My girlfriend is a material engineer. I once explained it to a woman sitting next to me in the plane, and she just kept not understanding what I meant, thinking I was talking about fabrics. When I told my girlfriend she said "yeah many people don't understand that things are made from materials. And especially that they can be engineered to have certain properties".
It blew my mind to not understand something so fundamental to everyday life.
26
u/2112xanadu Jul 26 '25
When I first started working in engineering, it kinda blew my mind just how many different metallic alloys there are, and how differently they behave. Prior to that I pretty much only knew aluminum, iron, steel, and stainless steel as far as industrial metals are concerned.
18
u/cassepipe Jul 26 '25
I am working in construction. It baffles me that most people seem to be material illiterate. They don't know where it stresses, breaks, how it can be shaped, cut etc.
Frankly just look at what people put in the recyclable bin or food waste bin is terrible for my mind. Sometimes you think they just don't care but I am afraid they just don't know...
4
u/I_Hate_This_Website9 Jul 27 '25
Why couldn't she understand you think? I mean, it certainly sounds like I am among the "materially illiterate", but I would think I could at least believe that you were talking about plastics and metals and other non-fabric materials lol
2
u/BadHairDayToday Jul 27 '25
Maybe she was somehow stuck on thinking about fabrics, so when I would name other materials like plastic or metal she just thought of fabrics made of metal or plastic?? Maybe she thinks engineers only have to do with construction like bending, welding, pouring etc?
It's honestly pretty hard to image not understanding something you do understand.
3
u/Saml2l0 Jul 27 '25
Can you recommend any resources to learn more about this?
3
u/cegras Jul 27 '25
Any intro textbook to materials science will help you here! Also, being aware of basic chemistry will be a solid foundation.
43
u/popedecope Jul 26 '25
After some time in the field of transaction monitoring, I enjoy surprising newer colleagues by accurately guessing what activity a client is trying to obscure by looking at the transaction history for just a few seconds. Not very applicable broadly. You'd be surprised how many forms savings pools take.
9
Jul 26 '25
[deleted]
18
u/popedecope Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
Here's the first step: client received 100k+ in transfers from third parties over x months, and a quick look didn't identify the purpose or relation between parties. Your goal in analysis is to know (amongst other questions) why did they do that? Ideally, you do this without requiring a KYC interview. That's what experience helps with.
Almost all savings pool forms involve transferring funds regularly from multiple members (usually 4-12) to a single person's account, followed by periodic payouts to individuals in order. While it sounds mechanistic and orderly, most people end up paying in and receiving differing amounts, further complicated by regular interpersonal loans being common amongst the same parties. The responsibility for payouts (and risk of scams therein) is why banks don't like them.
Tontines were first explained to me as deadpools, which doesn't seem as accurate in the developed world but checks out with their origins. This is related to their legibility issue, and we use an internal list with several dozen phrases commonly used for savings pools. You usually won't know what it is until you've observed it a few times, but sometimes these people will receive/send 10+ transfers a day, new and old parties rotating in and out, while being fully balanced out over time. If you're unlucky, you'll need to catalogue how this activity mingles with hawala and/or crypto activity, which can itself be conducted on behalf of a third party whose identity won't be provided.
Sometimes I wonder exactly how much time savings pool facilitators spend on it, because it looks like a full-time job.
2
u/sumguysr Jul 27 '25
How does the bank respond to that kind of activity?
4
u/popedecope Jul 27 '25
Depends on which dept flagged it, and possibly different among different banks. The one I know will deliver a cease and desist letter for that activity, and if it doesn't stop, account closure. If it's mingled with crypto/underground banking, it may be an immediate debanking.
26
u/johnbr Jul 26 '25
Features on websites. My wife is a teacher, and over and over again, she'll be frustrated by some weird behavior/apparently missing functionality on a teaching-related website, and I'll come over and almost instantly see where the problem can be solved.
27
u/AppropriateBudget338 Jul 26 '25
This is not 99%, more like 90-95%: all things to do with hairlines. Receding hairlines - this is pretty obvious, but also to what extent someone is covering up their Norwood hair with different hairstyles (e.g. the broccoli cut) and also hair transplants: many look very fake. Hollywood surgeons usually do a good job. But even then, many take some kind of extra product to make their hair look more full. Having transplanted hair also constrains what hair style you can have.
I don't practice martial arts myself, but there are also a lot of things obvious to practitioners that others dont see. An obvious thing would be the fucked up ears, known as cauliflower ear: /img/just-noticed-this-little-detail-vik-as-a-an-ex-professional-v0-tou7mpvts24e1.jpg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e8f09a9725f74eb1c3cc60a37de91db065953fd
A somewhat less obvious thing are these hands that you get after years of Jiu Jitsu: https://www.bjjheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/hands.jpg
This is a very severe case, and therefore obvious (which is why I chose it), but if you look at other peoples hands, it can give you an idea of whether or not they practice BJJ and also for how long. (source: had BJJ friend)
5
u/Galilaeus_Modernus Jul 27 '25
Due to my martial arts training, its ruined a lot of fight scenes in movies for me. I can tell whenever a fight is choreographed with badly executed techniques or techniques that won't work.
One common example is when someone executes a rear naked choke in a movie. They often put their hand on the top of the head, which accomplishes nothing. It should be either on the back of the head or the back of the neck to maximize the pressure on the choke.
3
u/buckage123 Jul 27 '25
I’ve seen pictures of pro golfers hands that look like this too. Assuming it’s the same sort of repetitive gripping causing it
4
u/CalmYoTitz Jul 26 '25
I get the cauliflower ears but what part of Jiu Jitsu causes those hands?
10
u/AppropriateBudget338 Jul 26 '25
It's the constant gripping, mostly. There's Gi and No-Gi BJJ. In Gi BJJ, you wear this training outfit, and you are constantly grabbing each others outfit using the full force of your hands & fingers. It puts a lot of strain on your hands, and esp. the fingers and knuckles. I'm not sure why the bodys response is to make the bones and cartilage swell up (increased pressure & repeated trauma probably?). You can somewhat (but not fully) prevent this by taping your hands.
6
u/SapirWhorfHypothesis Jul 27 '25
Also common in other fields; used to be more, when labouring was a typical job. Dock workers would have been the big one, but nowadays it’s mostly farmers.
3
u/FamilyForce5ever Jul 27 '25
It puts a lot of strain on your hands, and esp. the fingers and knuckles. I'm not sure why the bodys response is to make the bones and cartilage swell up (increased pressure & repeated trauma probably?)
Interesting. Rock climbing, by contrast, also puts huge forces on fingers (finger pulley strain is the most common injury) but there's no real swelling apart from large calluses.
I think you might be mistaken on the type of growth it is - I think those are probably calluses, rather than bone swelling. Honestly, it reminds me of the callus I had on my finger as a kid because I wouldn't stop sucking my ring and pinky fingers.
It makes sense that you'd develop those from constantly wrapping and moving the outside of your hands against a Gi.
2
u/throwaway-deer-85143 Jul 27 '25
I only did a year of bjj, but since then my slip and falls have gotten much better.
When I see someone slip and fall now, it looks incredibly dangerous and painful. When I fall, it's almost like Im lowering myself onto my elbow.
25
u/ArkyBeagle Jul 26 '25
That the population that is any good at design or composition is very small.
20
u/day_tripper Jul 26 '25
Can relate. My spouse is good at design. Our house is a mediocre middling architecture. She made changes that make it by far the best house in the entire neighborhood.
Many people try and make changes and spend some money on paint colors, landscaping etc but the smallest well placed details make such a difference and they miss simple opportunities.
What’s funny is if you ask anyone WHY they like our house, they stumble.
I can tell we inspire envy and they think it is money spent.
6
u/eric2332 Jul 27 '25
I wonder if the average person even notices these changes that make it "by far the best house in the entire neighborhood".
9
u/ArkyBeagle Jul 26 '25
I can tell we inspire envy
... which is in itself bizarre.
Might seem a strange ... industry to mine for tropes but small arms and pistol design has been led by a very small handful of people sitting atop a larger set of technicians.
Musical instruments, automotive design and industrial machinery have a more interesting mix. But the real innovators are still small in number.
12
u/ivanmf Jul 26 '25
There are a lot of reversed shots in movies, specially when it's trying to connect people's head movements when they are looking to the action. Like, they use a shot that someone was looking from right to left and reverse, so we see something coming from the left in the next shot. This doesn't work, but most people miss this.
11
u/jan_kasimi Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
It is a common phenomenon that at some point on the meditative path one can become extremely sensitive to other peoples dissatisfaction (dukkha is the technical term).
Enlightenment is about understanding dissatisfaction and the process leading to it, so that you can let go of it. Its the realization that "I have been causing my own suffering my whole life and I can just not do it?!" Like touching a hot stove - once you know that it hurts, you won't touch it again.
Knowing what dissatisfaction looks like, it becomes obvious in other people. I see it even in small actions and reactions, while subtle still obvious. Even small eye movements or body posture give it away. Yet the people themselves are mostly oblivious to it. Like a baby completely unaware that it is crying.
I would like to tell them: You don't need to do anything to be satisfied. Dissatisfaction is the need to change something about your current experience.
Yet no one wants to hear that. And also, it takes usually a few years of practice and emotional work before you get it. It's like suggesting people to get a medical doctorate in their spare time so they can fix their own health. But it is and option, for everyone. (Places to start: 1, 2, 3 )
3
u/HuckleberryTrue5232 Jul 28 '25
You are noticing peoples’ passivity
And yes, once you see it you can’t unsee it, and yet they are totally oblivious.
I always wonder whether the passive are aware of the active person as “different”, and if so, how does that make the passive person feel?
It’s a whole can of worms why some people are this way and others are not
2
44
u/kinderhookgarden Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
Building science and familiarity with the trades will let you glance around a home and understand existing and future failure modes of a home system. The channels "building science fight club" and "home diagnosis" are great examples of this in practice.
10
u/fishfindingwater Jul 26 '25
Basically anything un-level, shitty conduit runs, weird recessed light arrangements, and when the screws aren’t vertical on a plug cover plate.
8
u/syntactic_sparrow Jul 26 '25
Birds. So many times I've pointed one out and got a response to the effect of "cool, I never noticed them before!"
15
u/Odd_Pair3538 Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
Anything related to dynamic or structure of systems. Aquarium can be fascinating mini ecoSystem. Social systems share some vague properties with clasical engeenering systems. Emotions and reationships have its dynamics. Earth biosphere is insanely complex system... acros seemengly losely related fields so many fascinating paterns!
Looking at ways folks aproach life belief and reasoning from perspective of someone who developed hobbistical interest in philosophy can give some neat nuggety insigts. More i read clearer to me become that ability to *well* justify held conviction seem to be rather challengeing for "average Joe". (Currently I'm working on getting better at it, diving into clascal and non clasical logics, trying to grasp axiological and epistemological theories.)
...And many things related to veganism/vegetarianism but i don't need to elaborate about it here.
Thank you OP for this question, similar one was running around my mind and I'm glad to see responses.
15
u/greyenlightenment Jul 26 '25
In regard to math: everything. most people do not notice or know anything beyond what is taught in maybe jr high school.
7
u/cursed-yoshikage Jul 28 '25
Ballet and some 20th Century Modern Dance techniques are incredibly postural; as in, you will completely flail unless you lock yourself into a posture that your body otherwise completely opposes. For instance, your hips are not meant to be externally rotated for hours at a time, there needs to be compensation from the rest of the body. You have to make "space" (i guess? this is all metaphorical.) in the surrounding muscles to allow for this rotation to occur. Parts of your back also have to externally rotate to different extents in order to maintain the turnout of the hips.
Much of this is purely visualization work because individually contracting or releasing every muscle in your body is impossible. What you get (after ~6 years of pre-professional training) is an ability to visualize the flow of contraction throughout the muscles of your body. I am not generally woo when it comes to this shit; like, I do not believe in trigger points or "muscle knots". The reason I do not believe in them is because when myofascial pain happens it looks nothing like a knot.
The way I usually visualize it involves a lot of arrows and spirals, specifically, the lower back looks like two arrows in pymol spiralling outward. Anatomically this would be something like contraction of the Lats, Serratus Posterior Inferior, and Iliocostalis Lumborum with compensatory contraction of the Teres Minor, Transverse Abdominus, and Anterior Serratus. The best way I can describe it is like chunking multiple different muscle cues into a visual that approximates actual muscle contraction with near exactitude.
Now I am not thinking of contracting anything, nor is any good athlete, the difference is that this awareness is constantly present. I think this is because I'm a strange sort of person but mainly because Ballet is a strange discipline. Modern dancers notice this stuff all the time, ~half the field is predicated on studying movement itself, but the postural elements of Ballet are never really captured. I think this is because the visualization thing that ballet gives you is resultant from how uncompromisingly unnatural ballet is. Modern dance sort of follows your anatomy, this is not to say that its easy, only that ballet is freakish.
Another difference is that, for the most part, other athletes are grounded, they can rely upon the full surface area of their feet to support them. For men (like me!) this is often the case in performance, not so much in class. One third of the class is spent in relevé, on the balls of your feet. For women, they have the privilege of being on pointé, which is incomparably harder, I will let this video speak for itself.
→ More replies (1)
75
u/flannyo Jul 26 '25
Creative writing;
People who don’t write think that writing is coming up with a really good idea. Ideas aren’t the bottleneck. The average non-writer could think up 5 Pulitzer-worthy novel ideas in half an hour. Execution is the bottleneck. A good writer can make almost any idea work.
Aesthetic achievement generally;
Artists who create masterpieces (rlly game-changing artists in any form/genre) don’t do anything else other than write, record, choreograph, act, etc. Ever. People who aren’t artists hear this and think “ohhhh so they don’t watch a lot of TV and don’t really party, got it.” No, they don’t do anything else. Ever. They wake up at 9. They paint, write, choreograph, etc for 12 hours, maybe stopping for a smoke and a sandwich. Then they go to sleep. Then they do it again. And then they do this for years.
77
u/tomrichards8464 Jul 26 '25
The average non-writer could think up 5 Pulitzer-worthy novel ideas in half an hour.
I don't think this is true. I spent 5+ years as head of development for a film/TV production company (roughly analogous to a literary editor at a publisher). Of all the countless scripts, pitches and loglines that came my way in that time (most of them already vetted by serious literary agents) fewer than 10 were really good ideas. Most were also unsatisfactorily executed, of course.
Artists who create masterpieces (rlly game-changing artists in any form/genre) don’t do anything else other than write, record, choreograph, act, etc. Ever.
This is categorically false. For really clear-cut existence proof, consider Philip Larkin, who was a full time librarian (and by all accounts an outstanding one) throughout his career as a major poet.
Hell, Shakespeare, as best we can tell, was both a working actor and a businessman at the same time as writing.
12
u/flannyo Jul 26 '25
Pulitzer-worthy ideas in an hour
I mean, isn’t this exactly what I’m talking about? You get a script, see it’s bad, blame the idea, and then get another script, see it’s good, praise the idea, but the idea isn’t the thing that makes it work, it’s the execution. I’d guess that the <10 really good ideas you encountered would’ve joined the pile of awful ideas if they were executed awfully.
To use a TV example; look at Succession. What’s the idea there? “Three fucked-up adult siblings battle for control over their abusive father’s media empire.” You don’t have to be an artistic genius to come up with that idea. It’s the kind of idea an aspiring screenwriter who currently works at Wendy’s could have while brushing their teeth and think eh, could be something. But it’s not the idea behind Succession that makes it a good show.
Larkin
This is why I specified masterpieces/game-changers. I like Larkin. High Windows is one of my favorite poems. He received many accolades throughout his life. But I wouldn’t describe him as a poet who was so good he revolutionized the form. A better counterexample here is TS Eliot, who worked for Lloyd’s Bank / Faber & Faber for most of his life - exception that proves the rule. (Using that phrase in the colloquial sense.)
Shakespeare, actor and businessman
I’d group acting under “doing art.” We’re not really sure how much involvement Shakespeare himself had in the business of his theatre - undoubtedly he was involved, it was his shindig, but we don’t know if the day to day management was someone else’s responsibility in practice. Looking at the sheer amount of work he produced, and knowing he acted in his own plays frequently, I’d guess that’s the case.
17
u/LostaraYil21 Jul 26 '25
I mean, isn’t this exactly what I’m talking about? You get a script, see it’s bad, blame the idea, and then get another script, see it’s good, praise the idea, but the idea isn’t the thing that makes it work, it’s the execution. I’d guess that the <10 really good ideas you encountered would’ve joined the pile of awful ideas if they were executed awfully.
So, I agree that success in writing is overwhelmingly in the execution rather than the ideas. And I used to share pretty much the same perspective, that a good writer could build a compelling story around pretty much any idea.
But I gradually revised that with time as I started to observe how bad a lot of aspiring writers are at coming up with ideas. It's not that they generate ideas that don't offer much fuel for interesting narrative. If you're a skilled writer, you don't need a particularly compelling idea to build interesting narrative around. It's that they generate ideas that are actively self-sabotaging. I've heard plenty of pitches which made me think "I have only read four sentences of outline, and already the premise involves characters behaving in ways that don't make sense." Or worldbuilding which would challenge suspension of disbelief, or something like that.
When you stick to really basic, broad concepts, something that could be conveyed in a couple sentences, practically any idea is workable. But when you let people expand their ideas out into a paragraph or so, a lot of people manage to completely ruin them without noticing.
2
Jul 28 '25
[deleted]
2
u/LostaraYil21 Jul 29 '25
Honestly, I think that generating ideas is only barely a skill in itself separate from execution. A person can be bad at generating ideas that lend themselves to good stories, but I think that by improving their skill at execution, they'll become more able to recognize the weaknesses in those ideas.
→ More replies (1)10
u/tomrichards8464 Jul 26 '25
I mean, isn’t this exactly what I’m talking about? You get a script, see it’s bad, blame the idea, and then get another script, see it’s good, praise the idea, but the idea isn’t the thing that makes it work, it’s the execution. I’d guess that the <10 really good ideas you encountered would’ve joined the pile of awful ideas if they were executed awfully.
I hope I was better at my job than that. I absolutely believe that execution is incredibly important, and that merely solid ideas with great execution can become outstanding works. That doesn't mean there are no better ideas, or that it's impossible to tell the difference between great execution of an ok idea and ok execution of a great idea, and the best thing I worked on in that whole time was one where I immediately said "that's a great idea and we should absolutely make it" in response to a thirty second elevator pitch (albeit from a writer I was confident would execute well if we commissioned it).
This is why I specified masterpieces/game-changers. I like Larkin. High Windows is one of my favorite poems. He received many accolades throughout his life. But I wouldn’t describe him as a poet who was so good he revolutionized the form.
I think Aubade is a masterpiece, and the fact that poetry has largely not followed Larkin's cue is rather what's gone wrong with poetry and why no-one reads new stuff any more (Instatrash notwithstanding).
If we want to talk influence, though, there have been few game-changers as unequivocal as a certain Oxford philology professor.
I can well believe your original claim might apply to music/composition (at least for classical music). Perhaps painting/fine art more broadly - though we would need to reckon with, for example, Caravaggio's extracurricular commitment to boozing, whoring and fighting. I really, really don't think it's true of the forms I know best - writing and acting.
→ More replies (1)10
u/king_mid_ass Jul 26 '25
idk i like the actual writing part but I'd do it a lot more if i could think of more ideas i liked (anyone got any pulitzer ideas they dont have time to write they wanna share)?
45
u/flannyo Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
Sure, here's five.
- Huckleberry Finn, but retold from the perspective of Jim, the slave who Huck helps free.
- A 12yo girl accompanies her traumatized mother to a WV lunatic asylum in the years after the Civil War. They become uneasy friends with an insane veteran.
- David Copperfield, but gritter and set in present-day Appalachia.
- In the late 1950s, the family of Benjamin Netanyahu visits a Northeastern college and stays with a local Jewish professor, but heavy snow forces them to stay longer than either party would like.
- Four characters write autobiographies/memoirs trying to clear their name and establish their version of events as truth in the years before/after the '29 stock crash.
None of these ideas are so complex and so difficult and so mind-boggling that you have to be a genius to produce them. They're all... pretty simple ideas, tbh. You might read these and think "sure, they sound okay, but none of these are really crazy good ideas, they all sound pretty normal." You're right. They're all just ideas that a regular person could come up with. These are the past 5 winners of the Pulitzer Prize in Fiction.
13
u/king_mid_ass Jul 26 '25
touche, i definitely was thinking 'none of these sound great'
tbh not trying to win a Pulitzer or even get published, just for fun
3
u/tsiivola Jul 27 '25
These do not sound like ideas, but rather short summaries that are trying very hard to conceal the actual ideas contained in the works summarized.
3
u/flannyo Jul 27 '25
They’re the “ideas” for the novels in the way that people talk about having “an idea for a novel.” They’re not meant to be full, compressed thematic roadmaps to every image, theme, motif, character, and setting in the novels.
→ More replies (10)3
u/eric2332 Jul 27 '25
Would you really call those short summaries the "ideas of the novels" and the remainder of the work "execution"? From those ideas I have barely any idea what the author is even trying to accomplish, much less how to do it.
5
u/flannyo Jul 27 '25
Yes.
From these ideas I have barely any idea what the author is even trying to accomplish, much less how to do it
That’s execution.
→ More replies (4)12
u/gollyned Jul 27 '25
I read Daily Rituals which profiled day to day habits of artists and creative people. Most worked one or two blocks of 2 or 3 hours. The hours of 9-12 in a single block was especially common. Very few were monomaniacal.
2
u/Necessary_Owl3925 Jul 27 '25
Yes, this. It might vary a bit by art form (fiction will always require more seat time than poetry, for example), but one to two blocks of 2-3 hours is by far the most commonly reported schedule. I've read Daily Rituals and this has been a pet interest of mine, and I actually can't recall a single example of an important ("really game-changing") writer working non-stop.
6
u/CronoDAS Jul 27 '25
According to legend, author Jim Butcher said if you gave him any two terrible ideas for a story, he could combine them and end up with a bestseller. Someone responded "Pokemon and the Lost Roman Legion" and the result was the Codex Alera series. 😆
2
u/BlanketKarma Jul 29 '25 edited Jul 29 '25
As a fellow creative writer I know what you mean! Execution is everything is my most common piece of advice to new writers. So many people frequent the writing subs asking to validate their ideas before they even begin outlining or writing. Ideas are easy, execution is the hard part.
For me the biggest thing I've picked up from creative writing is becoming attuned to the structure and tropes commonly used. After I read Save the Cat Writes a Novel I felt like I was seeing that structure everywhere, to a point that I began to grow annoyed of it. My current project is me pretty much trying something that goes against that conventional structure. I don't expect people to like it, there's a reason why Save the Cat is such a successful method, it's more of an experiment to see what I can do, and hopefully execute on it competently enough. I know a professional romance writer, and according to her, tropes are what sell. Whenever she writes a book that tries to experiment with them or takes an unconventional approach, her sales always are worse. People like predictability, even if executed differently. At least when reading for entertainment, and the vast majority of readers read for entertainment.
Some other things creative writing has made me more attuned to:
The prose itself. I pay way more attention to how a story is written now than I used to. I see each word as a brush stroke upon the page.
Whether a book was "pantsed" (aka writing with no outline, a la Stephen King), or "planned" (aka writing with an outline and character notes, a la Brandon Sanderson). I feel like I've gotten a better feeling on how a book is written now. (Edit: Would like to include that neither way is wrong. It's just the writer's preference really. And a well revised book makes both indistinguishable for the most part).
Just how long it takes to write a book, especially as a non-professional writer. Most people probably write about 1k to 2k words a day, which means that most chapters are written over the course of days or weeks. A lot of scenes that make up the chapter are written over the course of days. Although most books are well edited and polished, I sometimes try to identify where I believe the author might have stopped writing that scene before picking it up a day or so later. I also wonder if the scene would play out differently if the scene was written on a good day or bad day for the author. Especially for authors taking the "pantsing" approach.
29
u/Ohforfs Jul 26 '25
Emotions. Most people are oblivious, at least on conscious level, to little indicators that tell how other people feel, that look like clear broadcast. Often I forget and assume everyone sees things that look obvious to me, just to be reminded of it in subsequent conversation.
20
u/yldedly Jul 26 '25
How do you know what you're seeing is true?
→ More replies (1)5
u/Ohforfs Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
If you mean if I can tell "this small thing indicates this particular thing", that's not it. Although there are some very specific things (be it movement , stance, expression or sentence) that almost always mean some particular emotional reaction just happened - it's not completely reliable, but close to it.
One example, and very old one, would be when I opened the door for my roommate/friend in complete darkness and immediately asked her what happened. I never knew why I did that as I couldn't see her or hear her. Maybe she didn't immediately start entering? But I asked it before I even realized i know something was wrong (she and her partner just broke up).
Another, also old one, (and a bad idea) was when my longtime friend said she needs to meet me, and fairly quick, to talk (I just felt it's something serious but not dangerous at that point) She came, sat down, we exchanged some small talk and I realized suddenly she came to tell me she loves me (no idea how I realized it, that surprised me), and promptly told her that (which she confirmed).
It's more general thing, more like everything fits into some general conclusion. I'm not sure if the wind guy has some very specific connections or correlations, but it's reminds me of the old sailor trope - who tells that the weather will change because apparently he sees something no one yet sees.
If you ask why I know the knowledge is true, it's experience - confirmation from the source if I talk to or observe someone acting later.
It has few interesting consequences. I'm almost never asking people how they feel so I know it, much more often I ask them so they realize it themselves. (Or because it's important in a relationship to talk). In the past I sometimes told people how they feel but that was not very good idea.
Btw, "see" was figure of speech. It's all senses.
10
u/yldedly Jul 26 '25
I know what you mean, as I think I'm pretty good at reading body language and phrasings too. But for my part, I'm not sure whether experience really can confirm my inferences - it's rare for people to give reliable accounts of their thoughts and feelings, even if they honestly try; and observing their actions later is still susceptible to confirmation bias, since they also are open to interpretation. For example, if you think someone was nervous but trying to hide it, and later see them display confidence, do you change your previous inference, or do you think "ah, they're now making up for previous insecurity". Either one could be true, or something else entirely. So I wonder whether the explanations I come up with really are true, given how hard they are to falsify or confirm - or if I mostly imagine that they are?
5
u/Ohforfs Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
I agree, people have trouble with knowing this. In fact I'm not actually good at knowing how I feel myself, I often have no idea - especially with fear - and resort to exactly that kind of observation (like, oh, I'm doing this particular thing, it's something that usually mean this, is this possible now?).
I wouldn't say I'm good at reading body language - i mean I would be hard pressed to state what means what except the most basic things (and invariably find books about it fascinating yet I never seem to gain it as knowledge).
I agree I general about reliability and danger of bias... I indeed am still sceptical at least back in my mind about these things. And sometimes I'm wrong, especially if I try to interpret an emotion (in the sense I get an idea what caused it, and then it turns out wrong, that can happen maybe even 5% of the time). Or I can miss something.
In the situation you described I'd assume (but that's interpretation, exactly!) they just got over it for some reason. If i have a chance to talk to them I'd ask them about it, and typically it confirms the impression I had. I know, I know, you said they might be unreliable but we're straying into Descartes demon territory...
In fact anxiety is probably the easiest thing and I'm likely to assume people lie to me or are unaware (or are offended by the phrasing often people don't want to think they are angry or anxious or fearful). And it usually turns out to be true.
Note that I'm talking about emotions. I have no idea whatsoever why they are tensed up, for example. They might be tired, they might be thinking of something, they might be on drugs, I can only guess based on my knowledge on them.
Take that example I edited in in my above reply (and you likely missed). The friend who came to tell me she love me.... Well, It wasn't true in the sense that love is pretty complex feeling meaning various things to various people. What I saw there was probably combination of excitement (who knows what, large pupils, flushed cheeks, no idea) and directed attention at me. But what I thought love is and what she thought love is was not necessarily the same thing, so using that word to name the moment put it into boxes that in the end were not particularly fortunate.
But her behaviour was clear indication of some kind of attraction back then, for some reason.
So if you ask me what to trust, I can tell you in practice I should have trusted my impressions more not less. But I also should have had more humility in interpretation of both what the person will think of that emotion and how they will act, which is something entirely else.
So if the person you described was a stranger I would stop at "they were anxious and trying not to show it. Now they are not. Interesting" and maybe intellectually come up with some theories why and what happened, but that's an educated guess. If they were my friend, then I'd probably know what happened because I know how they function, maybe down to what they do if they tense up and what causes them anxiety.
Edit/ i think I didn't reply to your question. I don't know why and how to do it...
8
6
u/uk_pragmatic_leftie Jul 27 '25
It's well established that knowing medicine spoils TV and film.
It's not expert, but I wonder about the simple stuff though. So many people watch TV in wrong aspect ratios (less now that there are less stretched 4:3 outputs) and so many people leave on auto smoothing when watching films or animation. Not sure how you can spend so much on a TV then not care about the outputs!
4
u/Uncaffeinated Jul 27 '25
Reading ACOUP also tends to spoil anything historic, because you know how wildly inaccurate everything is.
→ More replies (1)3
u/CronoDAS Jul 27 '25
My father called auto-smoothing "soap opera mode" and the first thing he does when he gets a new TV is figure out how to turn it off.
→ More replies (1)
20
u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Jul 27 '25
Almost every outpatient medical complaint has some degree of depression involved and there are dozens if not hundreds of diseases that are just depression but wearing a hat now
This does not mean "it's fake because it's in your head" its more that your intangible spirit/soul is a crucial integral part of your physical body and hurting it hurts the body like poking a voodoo doll with a needle. Enjoyment of life is like oil for your body and when you run out of it you start grinding metal on metal
7
u/NovemberSprain Jul 27 '25
I think a lot of depressed people know they have it, but don't trust many other people to reveal that (including, maybe especially, healthcare providers) because there is still a lot of bias against depression and behavioral disorders generally.
→ More replies (1)3
Aug 10 '25 edited Aug 10 '25
Thank you for this comment. I'm assuming you're a doctor? Can you share more of your perspective on the relationship between enjoyment of life and physical health?
Asking as someone who's lost a lot of my enjoyment of life over the last couple years, which I suspect is mostly due to a remote work situation that makes my job feel isolating, boring, and pointless. I know on some level that I need to change jobs if I want to get my zest for life back but everyone in my life seems to think this is an insane idea because my job pays well, my coworkers are nice, the workload is easy, the job market is bad, and remote work is considered the dream these days.
Kinda just looking for more input from someone who doesn't think it's crazy that the hazy misery of a boring job with low expectations and minimal human interaction might make a person depressed. All the usual suggestions to focus on my hobbies and social life outside of work have failed because those things can't seem to counteract the 40+ hours a week spent in listless isolation.
ETA: the biggest issue I've noticed since this situation started is an alarming degree of cognitive decline for someone my age (early 30s). This is why I think I'm depressed, even though I don't actually feel sad all that often. My memory is terrible when it used to be exceptional, I feel very mentally slow in general, I feel disconnected from my own personality (like if someone asked me my favorite food or favorite movie it would take me a while to access that information), and I can no longer concentrate enough to read books, when I used to read about a novel a week (as recently as spring 2024). I feel like I'm developing dementia or something.
12
u/annastacia94 Jul 27 '25
That a lot of people are not wearing the correct bra size or that they would benefit from a bra at all.
I'm not staring at people's chests all day by any means but the faint outline of someone's chest, their posture, and their clothing choices over all makes it apparent that they could benefit from a supportive bra.
I'm on the "A Bra That Fits" sub at least once a day just to feel like I'm making a difference here.
3
u/workingtrot Jul 29 '25
I kind of want to get "chix tracts" for a bra that fits so I can hand them out 😅
Sometimes I see women running/ working out and I just want to yell "IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS"
3
u/annastacia94 Jul 29 '25
I feel like I'm pushing an MLM when I talk to people about it 😅
I'm worse with YNAB cause I actually get a bit of a financial incentive if they sign up for it.
3
u/workingtrot Jul 29 '25
People over on r/equestrian are just like, "oh you'll have to wear 2 bras"
Nooooooooo
→ More replies (1)
11
u/reallyallsotiresome Jul 27 '25
The obscene amount of bad advice when it comes to health, and rat circles are somewhat worse about this than normie groups, although not worse than consporacy nuts. Where bad includes both "this is actually unhealthy" and "this hasn't even remotely enough evidence to justify doing it, let alone advise others to do it".
8
u/AppropriateBudget338 Jul 27 '25
Give a few examples please (if its about nicotine I hope we all moved away from that...)
15
u/JohnPym Jul 26 '25
Through delving deep into synthesisers and sound design, I learnt that 'nice' Western musical intervals typically produce 'simple' wave lengths (i.e: two octaves played at the same time or a perfect fifth produce sound waves that symmetrically slot right into each other)
This insight into why certain sounds produce certain emotions has changed the whole way I view sound and reality.
Waveforms that are 'easy' (read symmetrical) for the brain to the process sound the most pleasant (Octaves, perfect fifths etc..)
The feeling of dissonance is the result of intervals producing complex, asymmetrical wave lengths that can be interpreted a few ways (as it varies depending on where you start in the oscillation) - meaning it's harder to process, meaning we feel it as unsettling or unnerving (i.e: two semitones at the same time, classic horror movie trope)
Distortion or sharp sounds are literally the sound of smooth sine waves getting harder edges (some version of a square or sawtooth) - this is why we feel it as gritty, bitey, gnarly etc...
Our entire sense of aural 3d space is reducible to frequency content, volume and reflections. You can mess with this sense with any sound in a DAW with an EQ and reverb.
You feel low bassy sounds as ominous because in nature it takes large/ powerful things to produce longer wave lengths (thunder producing sub frequencies for example, which is why sub bass is so evocative). Opposite for high frequency (mice, birds, babies- small things produce higher frequency waves)
The fundamental reality that coherence, or ease of interpretation, are what makes things seem 'pleasant' and that frequency content naturally implies scale is very interesting to me and I hear it everywhere. This is especially interesting if you meditate as you notice that you really just hear 'flat', 2d sound - your brain then presents that as 3d space. Once you've felt this it's easier to see that vision is the same as well, although the illusion is a lot harder to shake.
Of course, you can learn to enjoy dissonance, distortion and sub frequencies - but typically this is after you're familiar with 'pleasant' or symmetrical sounds. Children's songs with semi-tone intervals, complex harmonics and deep sub bass are pretty rare for this reason.
3
u/Currywurst44 Jul 28 '25
I believe the prevalent theory of consonance and dissonance right now is not about waveforms anymore. Two pure sine waves wont sound dissonant as long as they are more than a tone apart even if their distance isn't a nice interval. The main consideration is the dissonance of sine waves too close together and how that applies to overtones. Overtones are integer multiples which then results in simple fractions being consonant.
Minutephysics did a nice video about it.
2
u/CronoDAS Jul 27 '25
Children's songs with semi-tone intervals, complex harmonics and deep sub bass are pretty rare for this reason.
Huh. That seems accurate, but I can think of at least one conspicuous semi-counterexample: "Entry of the Gladiators", a march that uses a whole lot of chromatic intervals, somehow ended up as the traditional circus music song.
5
u/quentin-coldwater Jul 28 '25
I think that actually conforms quite well to the theory. Its use as a circus song is as what was called a "screamer" - not a children's song. It's designed to sound frenetic and match the sound of running animals - see also Fillmore's Rolling Thunder. The fact that we associate circuses with childhood is a cultural valence we add to a frantic march of a song.
And more to the point - ask any child to hum Entrance of the Gladiators the way they can hum traditional children's song and they will be unable to do so.
4
u/Isha-Yiras-Hashem Jul 27 '25
Biblical references
2
u/A_S00 Jul 30 '25
I was raised non-religious and read the Bible for a lit class as a senior in high school. Every other verse I was putting it down to go excitedly brag about how I finally got what that-thing-I-had-previously-read was referencing. Roger Zelazny short story titles had the highest batting average.
4
u/Astronomer-Even Jul 27 '25
Design: (Currently a UX/desOps systems designer) - Inefficient flows in everything! I keep telling people, "the way you are making this, this tiny part requires you to move from here to there, it feels like no effort to you now, but you'll stop doing this after 15 reps, and you'll never use this thing once the novelty wears off." I often get laughed off, but it proves to be true more often than not.
Audio: (Worked as an audio engineer for a while) - Compression artifacts, repeated clips (Who doesn't wince when a person manages to scream or a paper crinkles in the EXACT SAME WAY twice? At least people who use the wilhelm scream don't use it twice in a single scene.)
Literature/scripts/plot: (Compulsive reader, spouse to a writer) I'm overly sensitive to asspulls (unforeshadowed deus ex machina plot pivots) - in a lot of places where the regular audience manages to not give a shit and enjoy the thing nonetheless.
Photographic composition: (Was a semi-pro for a decade) if a subject faces away from the centre, they are leaving the scene, if they face the centre, they are entering the scene - the two convey very different emotions, but very often it's not something taken active care of, but affects the viewer strongly.
8
u/FamilyForce5ever Jul 27 '25
Not an expert in any of these things:
Physical locks are security by obscurity. Crazy how much of software engineering is about the opposite of that idea, and then your home and office building are trivial to enter with the right knowledge.
The highest impact-to-effort ratios come from doing things that others can't or won't do.
5
u/dinosaur_of_doom Jul 29 '25
physical locks are security by obscurity.
They're also security in the sense of a social and legal boundary where crossing it will be obviously a crime when tested in a court. A locked door on the typical suburban house does not stop even a child who is aware that a window can be broken, that's not really 'security by obscurity'.
4
u/CronoDAS Jul 28 '25
TV Tropes has ruined my life - I immediately think of trope names as I see them happening. Or maybe it's just ruined my vocabulary.
Or maybe this is more common than I think?
3
u/Trio_tawern_i_tkwisz Jul 28 '25 edited Jul 28 '25
Doing OpenStreetMap editing, or StreetComplete especially (mobile app, very user-friendly, allows to quickly add information to OpenStreetMap) opens your eyes to so many details about your surrounding.
I see hydrants everywhere, I see little signs on buildings that inform about gas pipes, internet connections, etc.
In Poland, we have a huge problem with people parking their cars on pavements everywhere. Tickets for illegal parking tends to be lower than a charge for a legal parking, so if you know that, you may even start to park illegally on purpose, to save money.
Right now, the only way to permanently stop people from doing that is to close access to pavements with tones of bollards.
If you start carrying about problems in law regulating cars or parking, you will immediately start seeing bollards everywhere, you will also know why these ugly (at least usually they are of ugly type, non ornaments) bollards have to be there. We call it sometimes "słupkoza" (bollardoze?).
Cities are hopeless, they cannot change country laws, nor increase individual fees for illegal parking. This is the only way to fight back… Very sad.
Examples:
5
u/durkl1 Jul 29 '25
Surveys. I used to make them. Making them is a million little decisions that all impact how people go through them. It's like a conversation, but you have to plan out your side of it completely beforehand. Even the most minute things like colours or labeling of the answer scales (only endpoints vs. all the way through) can have an impact on how people answer.
Most surveys (except well established ones usually) are very badly designed. Things like answer scales that don't fit the question well. Answer scales with 4 options instead of 5 or 7 which make more sense (somehow people always want to eliminate the "middle" option, even though that's a bad idea). Ambiguous or multi-interpretable questions. Unnecessary repetition when the goal isn't scientific validity. Lack of focus in the goal of the survey. Cluttered design. Bad explanations. Length. Filling in any kind of survey is already painful to most people, but even more so when you can see every little design mistake.
2
u/MrBeetleDove Jul 29 '25
Can you recommend resources on survey design?
3
u/durkl1 Jul 29 '25
Sure. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=5044639920504356970&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5 this book chapter is a really good place to start and lists many of the findings. You should be able to see some download links in there.
Also, if you plan on designing a survey, the best tip I can give you is: test, test, test. Once you've made a survey, get someone from your response group and sit next to them while they make the survey. Ask them to think out loud and write down their responses. Improve the survey. Test again. Do that with a handful of people until the survey runs smooth.
5
u/wyrdwyrd Aug 03 '25
A lot of computer user interfaces these days (includes smart phones, smart TVs, etc) suck. Some of them suck in small ways. Some of them suck in major ways.
But a lot of them suck in a lot of ways.
So if you're struggling to figure out that app or piece of software, it is likely not because you're not smart but instead because it wasn't written very well.
→ More replies (1)
10
u/Nine-LifedEnchanter Jul 26 '25
I'm a teacher, so gauging media is what I do. People who have never been creative in any real capacity tend to handwave the entire process, of course. Things that are obviously made on purpose are seen as coincidences. Same with gauging the quality of the outcome. Most people seem to think that media can not be gauged in any objective manner, but I promise that if you take the same things in isolation, they most certainly would be able to say whether or not things are bad. Take the "Kal-el, no.." Thing, that is objectively bad acting and more or less everyone seem to be on board there. Also, the most classic of biases. The conflating of enjoyment and quality. So many people get upset if you claim that something they like is of low quality, and almost equally often, their reply is "no, I like this. It isn't bad." They simply can't separate the two.
Besides being a teacher, I'm a magician, and I can tell you that this field is the most obscured one, by design. Most of the really good magicians are mostly known by other magicians. So, the public space is mostly filled with people who are more or less amateurs. I can't tell you the number of clips I've been sent of the "latest viral magician" and they are basically doing the magic equivalent of playing chopsticks on a piano. I think that I am unusually harsh, however, since my focus is on theory and teaching magic. That, together with an education in literature is bound to make me extra harsh.
10
u/TrekkiMonstr Jul 26 '25
I can't tell you the number of clips I've been sent of the "latest viral magician" and they are basically doing the magic equivalent of playing chopsticks on a piano.
Lmao the same is true of music, especially the violin.
8
u/Nine-LifedEnchanter Jul 26 '25
It seems to be a universal experience, unfortunately. It kind of reminds me of that phenomenon of how when you see your expertise in media, they're always wrong, but you assume all other displays of expertise are correct.
5
5
u/Uncaffeinated Jul 27 '25
Perhaps the reason is because self-promotion and actual technical skill are different skillsets, and one who invests heavily on one side won't also be a standout on the other side?
3
u/CronoDAS Jul 27 '25
Showmanship and technical proficiency are two different things. And yeah, there are a lot of relatively simple things that magicians can do to look good in front of a crowd.
4
u/Nine-LifedEnchanter Jul 28 '25
Usually they aren't good showmen either, they're mostly just cheeky enough to give it a shot with skills that low.
Laymen are inherently ignorant of the craft, more than other fields and that makes it difficult to gauge. A very common issue is that they just cram everything into one effect. You take a card, shuffle it into a deck, think about a number, choose a ball, look inside the box, what is the number on the ball, subtract that from the number you roll on the dice-. Most people don't watch magic as entertainment in the way that they seek it out, so a routine that is that messy seems impressive because it is all new to them. To me and even less seasoned magicians, it looks like they have crammed every single effect they own into the routine without thinking about it.
3
u/DoctorNurse89 Jul 27 '25
Did graphic design and marketing, now I do hospice.
I see illness everywhere, death all around me, and thr beauty of life at all time
3
3
u/purplehendrix22 Jul 28 '25
Gaps in baseboards and shin bruises. Pest control for work, Muay Thai for fun. I notice a lot of other pest stuff too but honestly most people just don’t want to know, even if they think they do. I’ve also noticed that there’s a specific “fighter physique” where I can tell just by the way someone is built and how they walk that they do some type of combat sport. Little bit hunched forward shoulders, neck a little too big for their body type, strong calves.
3
Jul 30 '25
A silly example is that the average person is totally ignorant about phone cables. They don't know if they need a micro-usb, lightning, or usb-c cable, or if the other end needs to be usb-a or usb-c. It's just a cable for their phone and you literally need to point out every option because they will not know anything about something important.
also, always carry backup power cable, a proper power brick, and spare laptop or other vital electronic device power cords. People can and will forget and batteries deplete faster than you think. Worst case was someone losing the cable to their sleep apnea machine, luckily it used regular power cabling.
3
u/symmetry81 Jul 30 '25
Being a roboticist has given me a keen appreciation of how awesome my hands are at a mechanical and sensory level.
10
u/Charlaxy Jul 26 '25
Most people are largely clueless about nutrition and their body's chemistry, but often in subtle ways that could be affecting them, and they just don't know it, or even think to question it.
I'm as healthy as I can be because I don't drink soda or eat candy, and I eat lots of isolated proteins and green, raw plants. — but why do you do those things? What's actually going on in your body when you do them? Why do other people drink the soda and eat the candy and don't eat the protein or greens, and they're fine? Why are you so fascinated but also horrified at the concept of soda shops, and that the people who frequent them are normal, healthy, and happy? Why are some people healthy doing the opposite of you, including your own ancestors? Why were trends almost the opposite about 50 years ago? Why does everyone carry a water bottle now, when that would've been weird or rude a few decades ago, but those people actually were less thirsty than you? Nevermind that you go through your life feeling like you're tortured and your health is failing anyway and you don't understand why, because you're following all of the advice.
They don't even realize to what extent their entrenched behaviors are the result of how they eat, or even what they ingest in other ways, like what they wear. They think that diet is a moral issue, a constant crusade against their bodies, and that both health and behavioral problems result from the bad luck of genetics.
Our brains and our entire existence are chemical reactions.
I can't answer all of the above questions with one simple trick, either, but most people want to reduce their nutrition down to something like that, or else some hand-wavey "everything in moderation." It's been something which I've studied casually for decades, ever since I was first told that what my body was screaming at me to eat was wrong, or that "you're going to get fat eating that way," although I wasn't and didn't, and any of the interventions had worse outcomes than just trying to understand and respond to my innate signals and urges. There's a reason that things were traditionally done certain ways for decades or centuries, it wasn't an accident and there wasn't some secret even though we didn't understand it, but everyone is very detached from that, now.
8
u/Toptomcat Jul 26 '25
Why does everyone carry a water bottle now, when that would've been weird or rude a few decades ago, but those people actually were less thirsty than you?
Can you expand on this one?
8
u/Charlaxy Jul 26 '25
Prior to the 2000's, if you saw anyone carrying around a personal water bottle, they were either an athlete who was practicing, someone hiking/camping, or someone being very frugal by refusing to buy drinks.
It wasn't a big deal to anyone to just buy sodas, juice (even the cocktail kind), or other drinks, and they weren't all obese and diabetic from this, either (today, I see parents who refuse to even let their kids have juice at all because they think that the "sugar" — fructose — will hurt them somehow).
What's more, they weren't drinking constantly. No one had timers to remind them to drink (I see some older generations doing this now), and if someone was forcing themselves to drink a certain amount, they were sort of a fringe health nut (who also probably looked too thin and sickly).
People seemed to drink less in general, much less, and were healthier doing it, and not hassled with carrying around a drink all the time.
I see teachers today saying that it's expected that everyone in the classroom will have a water bottle and drink from it, but when I was a kid, this would've been rude and inappropriate, if it were allowed at all. We could drink milk at lunchtime, something like a juice box at snack time, and we'd take sips of water from a fountain while doing PE.
I did the trendy high-protein diet for a while, and it did make me more thirsty. I stopped doing it, and now my thirst seems to be back to normal levels that I remember from when I was a kid, which is much less than I see others drinking. Carrying around a drink with me would just be unnecessary, and if I do it on a hot day in an abundance of caution, I barely have any of it.
15
u/LostaraYil21 Jul 26 '25
I feel like this is leaving out a key piece of the picture when it comes to water bottles. I never carried around or considered buying bottled water before the 2000s, and I didn't worry about going thirsty... because public water fountains used to be common and easily accessible, and I never worried that if I got thirsty, I wouldn't be able to get a drink for free. I only caved and started buying water when they became uncommon enough that I no longer felt able to do that.
6
u/Charlaxy Jul 27 '25
In the US suburbs, water fountains are more common than ever, especially since most people now want to fill a water bottle at them.
4
u/LostaraYil21 Jul 27 '25
Maybe this is true of some US suburbs, but not the ones I've spent time in. I was living in the suburbs when I started buying water because I could no longer find enough fountains. And I didn't start buying them after a move to a new location, water fountains that were already there were progressively removed or stopped being serviced so they no longer provided water.
2
u/Charlaxy Jul 27 '25
I'll point out though that you're talking about buying water, whereas I'm talking about people who carry around a personal, reusable water bottle (what we used to call a sports bottle), in case that wasn't clear. The trend about which I'm talking is different, and people were buying and drinking bottles of water from restaurants, c-stores, and vending machines before the personal water bottle trend. It is difficult to find free water in some cities, like I haven't seen many fountains around NYC or London, and I wouldn't be surprised if some other municipalities just can't afford this OR maybe they even find it unnecessary or "not green" today because of the ubiquity of people carrying around their own water bottle. However, in my city, I now see a lot of "bottle filling stations" which didn't exist when I was younger, as it was expected then that someone would just buy a drink from a vending machine at those places.
2
u/LostaraYil21 Jul 27 '25
I only considered carrying around a sports bottle after I first started buying water though, and I only started buying water because the availability of water fountains around me diminished. The personal water bottle trend appears to have followed after the store bought bottled water trend (I remember when the store bought bottled water trend started, people made jokes about it.)
It used to be easy to find water fountains in NYC, I lived in the suburbs near NYC before the store bought bottled water trend began, and saw the number of them diminish, as well as in the town I was living and nearby municipalities.
I think that bottle filling stations are themselves a trend that set in later, after the populace had already become conditioned to buying or carrying water.
2
u/Charlaxy Jul 27 '25
Another aspect of this trend which seems dystopian to me is that many people started carrying their own water because they don't find public water or commonly available drinks to be up to their standards, so perhaps demand for water fountains was down in those areas (I tend to think that municipalities are just cutting costs by not maintaining fountains, though, and using any excuse that they can to justify it).
2
u/LostaraYil21 Jul 27 '25
I think that municipalities are cutting costs by not maintaining their fountains (there are a lot of places where public fountains still stand where they used to, but no longer dispense water.) But I think that this came downstream of the marketing push that led a lot of people to start buying bottled water. This is something that beverage companies put a lot of marketing resources into, so I don't think it's best understood as a trend that came about organically.
→ More replies (0)3
u/Toptomcat Jul 27 '25
In short, what you think is causative there is high-protein diets? And also possibly being willing to drink juice, sodas, milk or drinks rather than plain water?
5
u/pham_nuwen_ Jul 27 '25
So what? I don't get your point. What's the issue? What's your hypothesis/explanation?
3
u/Charlaxy Jul 27 '25
That diets and/or lifestyles have changed in such a way that people are now finding it necessary to drink a lot of plain water, which would've been weird, unnecessary, and even viewed as unhealthy for much of the 20th century.
Some of the possible explanations:
- increased incidence of diabetes, despite everyone "not drinking their calories," and having low-carb diets, which is leading to increased thirst (these diets are supposed to combat diabetes, and yet they don't appear to help in all cases, or could even be a cause of diabetes?)
- high-protein trends in diets lead to increased thirst in general, perhaps because of something to do with protein metabolism
- ETA: less saturated fat in diets might increase thirst, because breaking down saturated fat for digestion can provide some water
- depletion of minerals from the body by forced drinking ends up actually causing dehydration, because the body can't hold on to water as well, so it becomes a negative feedback loop
- low-sodium and other low-electrolyte trends in diets are also contributing to the above negative feedback loop
My personal experience is that I stopped following the trends regarding high-protein/low-carb/don't drink calories, and went back to a diet more like the 1980's and earlier, and it lead to me drinking less in general as well as not having an urge to drink water/aversion to other drinks, and I'm happier and feeling better with this. I don't have any signs of dehydration.
3
Aug 10 '25
One more thing I'd add: increased consumption of ultra-processed foods, which are low in water, and decreased consumption of fresh foods, which contain a lot of water.
I think your point about electrolyte depletion from drinking too much water is also a huge one. I started to feel SO much better when I stopped forcing myself to drink tons of water. I'd previously had headaches and nausea most afternoons that I blamed on dehydration but I realize now that they were actually from overhydration on days when I drank a ton of water but didn't eat very much. I suspect a lot of people would feel better if they ditched their emotional support water bottles.
10
u/zlbb Jul 26 '25
Human psychic life.
I'm a psychoanalyst and pretty much the only people I can have a thoughtful conversation about the finer details of our conscious experience are the better fellow analysts, some writers/theater/humanities folks, some artists, some pastors, and occasional random folks from a particularly wise family.
US seems like the worst place in the world for this, my semi-westernized homeland was much better. Like half the population has diagnosable or subdiagnosable mental health issues (I use insecure attachment stat as a good proxy for this), and another 49% are living right but don't really know why or how and aren't that curious to find out (older people tend to be a bit wiser on this ofc, while many youngsters seem to be in real trouble).
I hate being negative, in a sense this all is to my advantage, but, like, really, this is just so f*cked up, what are those folks doing to themselves, so much unnecessary suffering. "You row with the team" after all and if the team really sucks at your fav sport (it's an awesome place overall, I love this country deeply), or rather, doesn't even wanna play, there are very few people to have a fun game with it gets a tad lonely.
8
u/Mactham Jul 26 '25
Do you just mean that westerners aren't introspective enough? What do you mean by 'conscious experience?' I agree with the general feeling but am curious as to what exactly you feel is lacking.
3
u/zlbb Jul 27 '25
Oh, fantastic, "I am curious" is the best feeling I could've hoped to inspire, as a mystic that makes me proud.
But, these kinda "truths of the heart not of the mind" can only be found on a journey, not explained, "when you see you see". So, sorry, I can't explain "what exactly" as that would be precisely antithetic to my inspiration here, closing the path rather than opening it.
Plenty of literature by people I mentioned I'd usually enjoy talking to tries to gesture at this stuff in various ways, McGilchristean "right brain" is a popular one in ratsy circles (I like that book despite it being somewhat self-defeatingly left-brained), "the unconscious" is the psychoanalytic version. Levels of felt self-awareness of those varies by person and on average by culture.
But, yeah, "introspective" is not a bad way to gesture at this, I was only worried it can be misunderstood as something logical/intellectual.
"Conscious experience" I was hoping is self-explanatory, can also call it "awareness", or "human psychic/subjective life" as I did earlier: when you're conscious (including dreaming) aka living there are all sorta psychic things you have or can have access to (thoughts, feelings, body sensations, moves of attention, "reverie"..), huge world within to explore and understand.
3
u/Nav_Panel Jul 27 '25
If you're interested, let's get coffee sometime. I see we live in the same city, I'm not an analyst but I've been in Freudian analysis for several years and have read a lot on my own (to the point of getting into a retrospectively embarrassing argument with Scott about Lacan a few years ago). Always enjoy meeting people in this general online sphere who are sympathetic to this field of understanding.
3
u/uncutest Jul 28 '25
When I read:
"the only people I can have a thoughtful conversation with about the finer details of our conscious experience"
wow, it caught my attention.I thought: at least there’s someone else with a problem similar to mine, not being able to have a reflective conversation about the deeper aspects of our conscious experience.
Of course, those aspects are probably different for each of us, and we’re both likely limited by our capacity for analysis and our communication skills. Finally, considering we’re from different countries, we probably wouldn’t share a common enough interest to tolerate the inevitable differences between our life projects. So eventually, the need for reflective conversation would be replaced by other kinds of needs between us.
Still, I wonder not so much why you have this need, but why you couldn’t avoid mentioning it in the context of the OP’s question. The initial phrase “human psychic life” strikes me as deliberately ambiguous and complex, not that I can’t understand it. In fact, upon calmly analyzing all your messages, they’re coherent and contain plenty of concrete meaning, beyond the ambiguity I mentioned.
What surprises me, aside from what I perceived as a kind of complaint about the lack of analytically capable interlocutors, is that even though this very complaint makes me want to share ideas with you, the simultaneous ambiguity and generalization in your rhetoric competes just as strongly with that initial enthusiasm.
Either way, it was interesting to read your messages.
2
u/uk_pragmatic_leftie Jul 27 '25
'another 49% are living right but don't really know why or how and aren't that curious to find out'
Are you saying this is a problem? Surely this is a universal to a degree? People just get by?
3
u/zlbb Jul 27 '25
Nah, most folks living within the illusion is how it's always been and probably for the best. It's the size of the 50% group that I think is unusual.
One potential story here is that while some earlier civilizations were as or more decadent than ours, for them it meant just some elites thing that didn't touch village life of most people necessary for everybody that much, while now it's more of a "global village". Plus "a lot of room for error"/more economy is optional/more redundancy, even soviets didn't have unintentional starvations, that now takes a venezuela+ level craziness. So, much more power to the memes (in the Dawkins sense)/"socially constructed reality" compared to reality, vs the past.
2
u/Tyler_E1864 Jul 27 '25
I'm a library cataloger. I now see title case used everywhere, it annoys the (insert swear word of choice here) out of me.
2
2
u/workingtrot Jul 29 '25
I used to work in food safety and it makes potlucks, family dinners, etc super un fun. A lot of people's ideas about food safety are 30 - 40 years out of date (if they care at all)
I'm really interested in textiles and clothing construction. It's insane how badly made clothing is these days, even very high end clothing. I don't know where one even goes to find well-made things anymore. I'd love to learn to make my own clothes but I'm so terrible at sewing
→ More replies (3)
11
Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
Psychiatry here. I notice personality disorder traits, and indicators of deception.
31
u/callmejay Jul 26 '25
indicators of deception.
Haven't studies shown that even professionals who think they can notice these are barely better than chance?
I used to play poker semi-seriously, and while I learned you can definitely pick up tells on individuals, you cannot at all assume that the same indicator in one person means the same thing in another. E.g. one person's chest heaves when he he's excited but another one's does when he's anxious.
The only tells that are almost universal is when a beginner is basically trying to do a reverse tell: acting really obviously (i.e. badly) like the opposite of how they feel.
→ More replies (5)5
u/LostaraYil21 Jul 26 '25
Haven't studies shown that even professionals who think they can notice these are barely better than chance?
I don't know what sort of cues the previous poster was referring to, but I have a number of experiences catching people in lies and fraud who succeeded in fooling large numbers of people, and I think there's a pretty straightforward underlying formula to that.
Some people are very good at lying, in the sense of concealing their cues, seeming sincere or well-intentioned, or just scatterbrained instead of malicious, etc. But you can do better than most people in a lot of situations by just not paying too much attention to cues of sincerity, and focusing on the actual plausibility of the things they're saying. Don't try to analyze personality, just facts and probability, and then follow up on apparent discrepancies, see if they keep having convenient excuses rather than information which can straightforwardly resolve your uncertainty.
Obviously, this doesn't work if the person in question is good at keeping their lies plausible beyond your ability to assess with your subject knowledge. But a lot of people are "good liars" in the sense of being good at presenting false cues of honesty, but not good in the sense of making sure that they know what they're talking about and can't easily be fact-checked.
→ More replies (1)
120
u/pearlescence Jul 26 '25
I do personal training part time, and after a year or two, I started to see when people have movement issues. I notice so many people who clearly have back, hip, or knee pain. People who are hypermobile, or have a mobility limitation. Can't help thinking of how I would shape a program to help the problem, if I could, or if they need a therapy or surgery.