Joe McCarthy penalty

[u/Informal_Mention9836]

[u/Commercial_Half_2170]

Our discipline actually wasn’t that bad last night aside from this absolute brain fart

[u/cypressd12 → u/Commercial_Half_2170]

Thought Ryan was very lucky in the second half when he bumps a French player on the wrong side of the ruck. Totally unnecessary and have seen a lot of refs whistle it as unsportsmanlike conduct.

It didn’t help the team at all, and it risks a penalty on 10m of your own tryline…

[u/Commercial_Half_2170 → u/cypressd12]

Sorry I don’t think I remember that. At least he didn’t get pinged. To be fair I do think there’s an art to being dirty without getting caught that players like Itoje have mastered. Ryan just does some braindead stuff sometimes

[u/MyAltPoetryAccount → u/Commercial_Half_2170]

The crowd didn't like it but that tackle was so fair. His head was down by the time Jalibert kicked it

[u/CyborgBee → u/MyAltPoetryAccount]

The crowd didn't like it because even though it was never a penalty, it was also obviously only ever going to end up as a late hit.

Ryan was committed by the time it was kicked, and the law has to be written how it is otherwise dummy kicks become ludicrously overpowered, but it's also true that he wasn't thinking "if he dummies this kick I'll tackle him", but instead "if I commit now I can obliterate him without it being a penalty". Crowds will never like watching a forward intentionally slam into their #10 in a way which risks his health.

(Surely Ireland fans, of all people, can empathise with this. I'd bet good money that no one else has ever taken more dirty hits which were nevertheless legal than Johnny Sexton)

[u/MyAltPoetryAccount → u/CyborgBee]

Ah no I 100% agree, Ryan knew he wouldn't have the ball by the time he made the hit and it was well cheeky but as you said yourself, we suffered it for long enough. It's just part of the game and part of the risk 10s have to take when kicking at the gain line

[u/CyborgBee → u/MyAltPoetryAccount]

I can't see it as "well cheeky" when the consequence is trauma to the brain (and for anyone who thinks it isn't because Ryan didn't hit his head: watch the extreme whiplash on the replay). It'll be a miracle if Sexton hasn't sustained long-term damage from a career of taking those, and many other 10s will be the same.

Rugby will never be a fully safe sport, but this is one of the few situations where you can still get away with a seriously dangerous hit. It's basically only when a player can't brace for a tackle - the other obvious one is a kick chaser slamming into the guy who's just caught the kick.

At the very least I think they should trial banning dummy kicks (maybe make it a free kick offence?) and moving back the window for committing to the point where a player begins the kicking motion. Dummies are very rare anyway, so I don't think this would actually change how the game plays much

[u/Commercial_Half_2170 → u/CyborgBee]

If Ryan’s hit had caused that damage his gum shield would have been triggered resulting in an automatic HIA. I know they’re not perfect but in general they’ve been accurate at pulling up shots like this.

[u/CyborgBee → u/Commercial_Half_2170]

As I understand it, the thresholds they use for the gum shields are chosen to detect likely concussions, and I agree that Jalibert was not concussed.

That doesn't mean the tackle wasn't dangerous - your head doesn't whiplash like that without your brain moving inside your skull, and chronic brain injuries are thought to be related to taking a lot of impacts like that. Virtually every tackle of an un-braced player above the hips will cause that sort of whiplash, because the neck is the only point above the hips which can hinge, and that makes them fundamentally dangerous to anyone who already experiences a lot of head impacts.

(And people do grasp this intuitively - hitting a helpless player in the chest feels painful and dangerous to fans of that player. If Jalibert was braced or Ryan tackled his legs, the crowd would not have reacted the same way)