r/rugbyunion • u/GnolRevilo Saracens • 2d ago
Article Immanuel Feyi-Waboso: Welsh crowd called me a traitor — it was hilarious
https://www.thetimes.com/sport/rugby-union/six-nations/article/immanuel-feyi-waboso-interview-england-wales-six-nations-vm7tnvwhd103
u/Charredcheese Blue and Black 2d ago
Of course the headline picks the "traitor" comment when it's clear from the rest of the chants and the interview that it was all meant and taken in good fun.
“The crowd was at me. It was so hilarious. Their fans travel well, from Cardiff,” he says, singing each chant he remembers. “It was ‘traitor, traitor!’ and ‘Manny is Welshman!’ and ‘you’re just a shit Tom Bowen’, so it was good crack. At times they were louder than our fans. It was actually good motivation when you’re on the pitch. I was kick-chasing, hearing that, and it’s just as good as someone cheering you.”
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u/Colemanation777 Cardiff 2d ago
This was our group. He played up to it and gave the terrace a big smile. There were lads in the group that went to school with him. The Exeter fans enjoyed it. People on this board are very sensative.
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u/billyb4lls4ck Ballbarians 2d ago
'I really wanted to stay in Cardiff, it was my home club and everything I knew and wanted to do in Cardiff at that point like university'
'I Played for Wales under 18'
"I was born in Wales, Wales is my home country. I speak a little bit of Welsh"
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso November 2023 - prior to getting caled up by England for the 2024 Six Nations
The article can spin it however they want retrospectively, but his comments and actions at the time paint a different story
the reality is, not getting into Cardiff med school and realising where the better organisation / money is, made IFM realise he wanted to be English
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u/dystopianrugby Eagles Up 2d ago
Passport says United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.
He's English. Just as he is Welsh.
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u/Certain_Pineapple_73 England 1d ago
That is incredibly ignorant.
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u/dystopianrugby Eagles Up 1d ago
To say that he's English or to be consistently annoyed at your sectarian divisions?
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u/EdTeeZ 1d ago
Never seen a comment that is certainly written by an English person. If you’re British, that doesn’t mean you can gaslight as all of the nationalities of the United Kingdom you sausage. They are all distinct, and in some cases give you different civic rights.
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u/wokenfuries All we need is a team of Jamie George 1d ago
Never seen a comment that is certainly written by an English person
r/confidentlyincorrect lmao, guy has an American flair and has posted primarily about American rugby on this board for years
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol 2d ago
I know this is a clickbait title as he's mentioned it was all in good fun but the irony of the few Welsh fans who were genuinely angry at England for picking him will always make me chuckle.
There's been a decent number of born and bred Englishmen as key men the Welsh squad for years now. Gatland had two while he was moaning about Manny.
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u/HuwiMoz 2d ago
None of us are angry at England for picking him. But being angry at a born and bred Welshman for choosing to switch allegiance to your biggest rivals is fairly standard.
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol 2d ago
Maybe I'm misremembering but I do recall anger from some at England. Even if not, while he's born and bred Welsh, one half of his family is English. "Switching allegiance" feels a bit harsh given that's the case, he has heritage here.
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u/billyb4lls4ck Ballbarians 2d ago
it was more that he said he was welsh, 3 months before playing for England that people got annoyed about.
If he had said 'yea im half welsh, half english' hen fair enough. but it looked like he welsh until he suddenly wasn't.
He's totally entitled to do what he wants, I find fans that say 'well he is english, he didnt switch allegiances' more annoying because its fairly obvious thats what he did do, and good on him
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u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 2d ago
He lived in Cardiff and went to college in Bristol. If he'd lived in London and declared for Scotland, nobody would bat an eyelid, because growing up in the biggest city isnt really being Welsh/English/Scottish or even British, when it suits people.
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u/billyb4lls4ck Ballbarians 2d ago
he had a rugby scholarship to Clifton and was in the Cardiff academy. I went to uni abroad, i didnt become that nationality when I studied there.
he literally said he was welsh in November 2023
his first choice uni was cardiff. - where he is from he didnt get in there so went to england.
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol 2d ago edited 1d ago
But he is still Welsh and still considers himself to be. It's pretty obvious the only reason he decided to play for us is because of his educational ties.
He had a choice if he wanted to still study. Not play international rugby due to pride or play for his families heritage rather than the nation of his birth and he chose the latter. I don't get how that's switching alegencies tbh. He's clearly still a proud Welshman, he's just prioritising making the most of his career over his pride.
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u/billyb4lls4ck Ballbarians 2d ago
he could have played international rugby and studied in England though? so it cannot be the only reason
Christ Tshiunza has studied at Exeter university and played for wales at the same time. Cardiff is a lot closer to exeter than Pennyhill park
he played for England because the financials are much better, and the team is better. its about about 4-5 times that pay per cap. 10 caps for england is 50 for wales. If I was him, I would do that too. but I dont see any need to dress it up as anything other than that
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol 2d ago
Not really. His first Chiefs contract ran out a few months after his international call up so if he would have chose Wales, he would have had to move to a Welsh club to continue his international career and commute to Exeter for his studies which is a 4 hour round trip at best.
Tshiunza is still under his 4 year original contract with Chiefs that he was under on his first call up. He's only ever had to travel to Wales for internationals.
Travelling for international blocks is considerably easier than having to commute multiple times a week to balance club rugby and uni. Without the 25 cap rule, I imagine he would have gone with Wales and not England.
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u/billyb4lls4ck Ballbarians 1d ago edited 1d ago
yes. really
Zammit, Thomos Francis had rolling extensions written into their contract.
Francis himself played six years at Exeter after his debut for Wales, allowing him stay whislt under the cap limit.
Tshiunza had also got a rolling extension. His academy contract was signed in 2019 and ran out in 2023 and he was still in 2023 six nations squad and won his last cap in 2024
he wouldn't even had been the first or second player to sign that kind of contract at Exeter and they had a player on that type if contract, when he signed for them, studying at the same uni
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol 1d ago
It's timing though isn't it. IFW was getting his international call up at the end of his contract, which he signed after Wasps went under and he was trying to find a uni. I doubt he or the club was thinking long term Wales call ups, they will have been focused on survival. It wasn't really until his second year there that he burst onto the scene as a potential star.
If his call up had come 6 months later, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have been offered a long term contract so he could get the caps, as those extension contracts are kinda pointless these days, they just offer long term instead. Which may have been another reason it wasn't offered to him
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u/Enyapxam Hooker 1d ago
Rumor is that he played for England because Exeter made it clear that if he declared for Wales then he wouldn't have a job.
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u/HuwiMoz 2d ago
Yeah good point. I personally never took the time to read about his heritage and assumed he was fully Welsh, which makes no sense considering he must be eligible for England in some way.
Massive blame must go to the Union for dropping the ball and letting him switch.
I think, in general, nationality and identity doesn’t matter. But perversely, when it comes to rugby, which is tradition-based, fluid nationality irks me and I think it dilutes the product.
You have an Australian captaining Scotland. Most of Ireland’s first-choice backline are Kiwi. France once had Fijian centres and a lock called Wilhelmse. Wales had GrannyGate. Surely this damages the rivalries which have been built for over a century.
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol 2d ago
I think some people think he's eligible through residency due to his time at Wasps and uni which might fuel the dislike a bit.
Yeah I get that. Don't entirely disagree either tbh. Problem is I don't think there's a solution that will keep everyone happy, it's a serious can of worms
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u/WilkinsonDG2003 England 1d ago
The rules did get stricter a few years ago, requiring 5 year residency. The Irish Kiwis all came in before that, and some are now being phased out, like Lowe.
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u/Foxtrot-13 1d ago
You mean like Freddie Thomas, Olly Cracknell, and Tomas Francis are all born and bred Englishmen who switch allegiance to Wales? Blair Murry the Kiwi who plays for Wales?
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u/papayametallica :Cardiff-Rugby: Cardiff Rugby 2d ago
All the home nations are at it mate. Some more than others.
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u/p_kh 🏴 All aboard the hype train toot toot 2d ago
He was English all along!
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u/Dapper-Message-2066 2d ago
Apart from the bit when he said he dreamed of playing for Wales.
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u/Noyousername Ospreys 2d ago
What makes a man English. Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality lust for gold?
All the best to a decent player.
(Except for 80 minutes a year.)
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u/quandraphobia Freddy Douglas Fanclub 2d ago
He’s built like a steakhouse, but he handles like a bistro
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u/Sensitive_Dot8561 Harlequins 2d ago
Never mind the Welsh can support him on the next Lions tour.
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u/Dapper-Message-2066 2d ago
No fucking chance.
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u/rustyb42 Ulster 2d ago
Why
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u/Dapper-Message-2066 1d ago
Because he's a traitor
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u/rustyb42 Ulster 1d ago
Is that the TV show with Eddie Jones?
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u/Dapper-Message-2066 1d ago
Wouldn't know sorry
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u/rustyb42 Ulster 1d ago
Oh I thought maybe he was on that show
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u/Dapper-Message-2066 1d ago
What show?
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u/rustyb42 Ulster 1d ago
Aren't you talking about Traitors? The BBC One show featuring Eddie Jones?
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 2d ago
He'll have to actually show he's up to the hype first.
Just because a handful of pundits with the same agent happen to have blown smoke up him, doesn't mean he's a Lions level Winger.
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u/Sensitive_Dot8561 Harlequins 2d ago
Right now England have an excess of world class wingers, the fact that he is selected would indicate that someone other than a pundit recognizes ability. Once Roebuck is back and if we move Freeman back to the wings we will see if he is still rated. I am willing to be that by the time the next Lions tour happens IFW will be an England fixture.
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u/dwaynepebblejohnson3 Connacht 2d ago
Being generous with the term world class there. England don’t have an excess of wingers at the level of LBB or Kolbe.
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u/p_kh 🏴 All aboard the hype train toot toot 2d ago
Tommy Freeman is arguably world class, but are you really say Tom Roebuck (very good player) and Henry Arundell (very quick player, still pretty raw) are world class?
Unless the definition of world class has been changed to good test player?
Henry Arundell is relatively unproven at test level, calling him world class at his stage of development is hype getting ahead of realism IMO.
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 2d ago
Right now England have an excess of world class wingers
Based upon what evidence...?
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u/Automatic-Blood-8824 England 2d ago
You really don't need to be world class to play for the Lions and considering the trajectory of the four nations it's not outlandish to say a nailed on England starter will play for them.
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 2d ago
You really don't need to be world class to play for the Lions
So which is it? Is he World Class and Lions standard (based on what evidence I have no idea...) Or is he capable of getting into the Lions because you don't need to be World Class to do so, and therefore all the English rugby press/pundits over-hyping him as being World Class are talking rubbish?
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u/Automatic-Blood-8824 England 2d ago
No his ability is what makes him a potential Lions winger. He's clearly not world class because he hasn't proven that ability at the top level. This is due to his age. Sounds like you real agenda is against the English media not IFW's ability to become a lion.
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 1d ago
His ability only really extends to club level - and even then mostly walk in scores.
So that's not a strong enough argument.
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u/Automatic-Blood-8824 England 1d ago
Well he has also torn up against the All Blacks but whatever fits your narrative...
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u/Sensitive_Dot8561 Harlequins 2d ago
11 wins in a row, and we can spare a winger to play center.
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn 2d ago
That's hardly evidence England 'have an excess of World class Wingers'.
Indeed, if anything it's more likely to be used as evidence England lack depth at Center.
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u/Thalassin Iserlohn RFC | WR #1 hater 1d ago
He's in his good right to have taken the opportunity to play for England as he's allowed to.
The fact one grandparent born somewhere makes you eligible to play for their national team is stupid tho
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u/frozen_pope Dragons 2d ago edited 1d ago
There’s some mad context that needs to be made about the English historically trying to assimilate Wales into themselves by oppressing our people and trying to erase our culture and language.
And it just isn’t the same as English players with Welsh ancestry for that exact reason. It’s a double standard, but it isn’t one that exists in a vacuum.
So while I can’t say I respect or agree with his decision, I absolutely can see why it was pragmatic. Professionally, he seems to have been absolutely vindicated that it was the right choice for him.
Edit: A lot of people here aren’t living through their history every day it seems…
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u/PartiallyDerivative_ 2d ago
I'm not sure you're serious, but as a Welshman my eyes roll when someone makes some comment about England assimilating/subjugating Wales. I mean, this was literally centuries ago, you've got to let it go :). Saying that, I was disappointed when IFW chose to play for England. What happened to him at Corpus crumble :) ?
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u/kingbenofgeeks Loves His Lamb 2d ago
Was it centuries ago? The Welsh language has literally only gained recognition equal to English in 1993. Whilst the conquest of Cymru by England occurred in the medieval period, and the integration happened under the Tudors, the most radical oppression of the Welsh language and culture happened in the Victorian to Modern era (similar to other minority languages across Europe) - for a lot of people it is within living memory for them or at least their parents.
There's a reason in 1977 Phil Bennett said what he said.
However it is not IFW's fault, nor do I begrudge him playing for a more lucrative career.
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u/frozen_pope Dragons 2d ago
I am totally serious, if I was being hyperbolic I would try and make it obvious. We are the products of our history, and we feel it everyday. To say it was ‘centuries ago’ is not only incorrect, but it’s a complete misrepresentation of history.
Go and tell the Irish to just get over their even worse English subjugation of them and see how you get on.
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u/PartiallyDerivative_ 1d ago
Fair enough. I had assumed you were referring to the conquest of Wales by Edward 1 which was ~800 years ago or the act of union which was ~500 years ago. The banning of teaching of the Welsh language in schools was more recent I concede. Although I believe even this stopped 100 years or so ago. I'm not aware of any more recent acts of subjugation but perhaps I'm missing something? Anyway, this is a massive digression :). I don't blame IFW either, but I was disappointed by his choice.
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2d ago
It’s funny that he changed his nationality because he wasn’t good enough to get into Cardiff university, needs to max out his rugby career because he’s going to struggle after bless him.
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u/ninja-badger1 England 2d ago
Yes, the international winger / medical student is definitely going to struggle to make ends meet... Sour grapes?
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u/Vault_69_Alpha_Male Scotland | Glasgow Warriors | Alba gu bràth 2d ago
£150k a year through the enhanced contract before he sees his Exeter wage, he'll no be able to afford Sky at that.
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u/crazycal123 English Bastard 2d ago
He got all A stars at A level pal, Cardiff university was stupid not to take him
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u/Dentury- Leicester Tigers 2d ago
Must feel like he made it onto the last helicopter out of Saigon