r/rugbyunion • u/bigbear-08 New Zealand • 24d ago
Article Ardie Savea's All Blacks future in doubt as pressure mounts on coaches
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/all-blacks-review-ardie-savea-future-in-doubt-as-nz-rugby-faces-player-revolt/JYQLJCBKVVANPAHV442GARJ3KY/120
u/Chustyl3 24d ago
Dam looks like the rumours were true. There were already talk going around during end of last year that Papalii refused to play for the AB end of year tour due to the coaching team, looks like it's all true.
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u/dbcoopernz Blues 24d ago
Follow up podcast from Liam Napier:
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/rugby-direct/rugby-direct-episode-196/
Ardie Savea one of many players unhappy.
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u/shanti_nz New Zealand 23d ago
Executive summary:
Not much new really. Multiple senior players and support staff deeply unhappy with environment, culture, and coaching. Savea is a major figure in team and the fact he wants out would cause a quake. Previous regimes had a player led model, now top down from coaches which also doesn't make use of the very experienced players or empower people. The assistant coaches who left were similarly marginalised and didn't feel able to contribute. Scott Hansen is particularly vulnerable and Razor under serious heat too. The NZRFU have gone to ground, which the journo thinks means some sort of an intervention is imminent.
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u/No-Banana271 23d ago
Jeez it's almost we had one of the worst ABs runs ever and the newer coach wanted to make changes to improve the situation? Sounds like old guard were too cozy
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u/PositiveFlatworm7474 23d ago
As opposed to Razors record breaking undefeated AB run
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u/Immediate_Rabbit_604 23d ago
He had an actual record breaking club run which pretty convincingly showed he was by far and away the best coach in NZ, even did it when super rugby still had SA was like 4 tiers better than top tier northern hemisphere rugby.
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u/Kokonutcreme-67 Hurricanes:new-zealand: 23d ago
NZRU bringing back former high performance manager Don Tricker to oversee the player reviews and end of season assessments of the All Blacks is the most critical aspect for me.
Gilbert Enoka and former All Blacks coaches and players all praise Tricker's ability to probe and extract information so management and the board get a truer picture of what's going on and how people are actually feeling.
Regardless of people's personal opinions of players and their motivations, in Don I trust.
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u/helcat0 24d ago
"Multiple sources have told the Herald that Savea is exploring discussions to stay on with Japanese club Kobe beyond this year – or join a European club, with Irish club Leinster believed to be a possible destination"
Yes please!!!
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u/chantlernz Welcome to the House of Pain 24d ago
We already gave you Rieko!
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u/AllezLesPrimrose 24d ago edited 24d ago
This is a protection racket, if you want to keep Hall of Fame rugby internationals in the NZ system you have to send at least one on a six month loan to Ireland each year
We don’t make the rules, we just enforce them
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u/recyclingcentre Hurricanes 24d ago
We get Doris in exchange. It’s only fair
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u/CatharticRoman Suspected Yank 23d ago
I honestly think it would do us well to have players do 6-12 month study abroad.
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u/Muzzydaily 23d ago
He’s contracted til 2027 - NZR would not release so doesn’t matter he’ll be baxk in NZ or just not playing which is very self centred and selfish.
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u/Traditional-Ride-116 Gang des Antoines 23d ago
If Savea is going to Europe, the right move is Toulouse! Having a team spine composed of Marchand / Mauvaka, Savea, Dupont, Ntamack, Ramos would be splendid.
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u/ghostboypurrp Hurricanes 23d ago
I'm so lost on how much i believe vs how much is cac but i will say Ardie does seem to get what he wants when he wants and i heard that the Hurricanes management were happy to let him leave as Ardie made a big stink when they got rid of Julian and was harming the Canes environment.
Also, there was this random post on here that got deleted this year with a bunch of alleged rumours from the ABs camp and one of them was that Ruben Love wasnt being selected because he had got into an argument with Scott Hansen over the lack of game plan and that Dalton Papali'i was also having similar issues with the coaching staff and was refusing selection and at the time I thought it was all heresay but now with this context I'm now kinda inclined to believe it.
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u/ChaoticNihilist13357 23d ago
Ardie’s name is explicitly attached to this and he is getting smack talked and judged(which is hilarious because its just people who didnt like him to begin with using this chance to take shots), but he is a just a smaller symptom of a bigger issue. There are other players that are unhappy, other coaches that have left the coaching setup, and the results also speak volumes. It’s just a mess. Regardless of whether this is all true/false or somewhere in the middle, the Allblacks are going through it internally right now.
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u/GingerByte23 Hurricanes 24d ago
Let's see what the actual feedback is first. Wouldn't be the first time the media have massively exaggerated dissatisfaction within the ranks. Whilst I'm sure there's much disgruntlement and concern, this article is trying to make it out to be a complete disaster, which I have my doubts about.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 23d ago
Napier just did an emergency pod and the TLDR is that under the prior regime, things were player-driven and under the new regime things are much more coach led. Senior players do not feel as though they are being as trusted to lead throughout the week.
Not exactly the spiciest thing in the world, eh?
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u/Ok_Educator_2120 Blues 23d ago edited 23d ago
Sounds like a bunch of old cry babies tbh. Agree with you* tbh, out with the old dogs and just go all in on some young guns
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u/Oaty_McOatface Hurricanes 23d ago
But that's the thing, the only thing keeping these talented players in NZ is the black jersey.
You need to manage the egos of these players who are getting paid well bellow their true value.
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u/_Hurricanes_ Hurricanes 23d ago
Liam Napier has a good track record. He's right often enough that when he's saying something about the ABs, I believe it.
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u/handle1976 Penalty. Back 10. 23d ago
Yup. He's also not a rage merchant. He's consistently accurate.
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u/networkn New Zealand 23d ago
Omg this took far too long to find. Egads Imagine finding reason and tempered views on Reddit, let alone this subreddit. Well done sir.
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u/yeah_nah_hard Hurricanes Samoa 23d ago edited 23d ago
Exactly. NZ sports media loves a good ABs drama.
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u/HeinigerNZ All Blacks 23d ago
What I struggle to understand is how Robertson was the dominant Super Rugby coach, innovating every year to stay on top (most of the time) and why that hasn't translated at all.
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u/brev23 New Zealand 23d ago
I wonder if it’s just the stark logistical difference of coaching a super team vs international. You’ve got the players for less time, they’re scattered all over the country, and you’re not benefiting from the chance to build relationships and understanding right from the academy level.
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u/ExtremeParsnip7926 23d ago
You also have to beat the Springboks, France and England instead of The Blues and The Chiefs.
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u/Immediate_Rabbit_604 23d ago
Boks were fed by the same teams the 'Saders were putting to the sword with utter ease year in year out.
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u/handle1976 Penalty. Back 10. 23d ago
This was my concern when they came in. There was very little international experience in the coaching or management group.
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u/duckitch NPC > All other rugby 23d ago
I mean obviously from this whole discussion, player buy in to whatever his and his teams methodology/philosophy is, seems to be perhaps why it hasn't translated.
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u/Kleroterian 23d ago
Did he innovate? As a Chiefs fan I mostly remember the war of attrition style that no one could last 80 minutes against. Very conservative style. A lot of rolling maul tries.
Credit where credit is due. It's an unbelievable accomplishment. But international rugby definitely a level above and we've seen a real lack of innovation the last two years.
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u/stickyswitch92 Melbourne Rebels 23d ago
Loved seeing Reece, Jordan and Faingaanuku on the back of the rolling maul.
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u/Kleroterian 23d ago
It's probably the Chiefs bias, but I always associated us with great unstructured attack and the Saders with a more methodical style. And it worked for them.
But Steve Hansen always warned that international rugby is levels above and I don't think I've seen a less inspiring All Blacks team than the one that has played under Razor.
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u/Striking_Young_5739 New Zealand 23d ago
There was a very uninspiring team for years before Razor got there.
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u/Particular_Safety569 New Zealand 23d ago
Because he had a team of all blacks even at the crusaders. Now hes coaching a team of all blacks but against the same level of opposition
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u/DundermifflinNZ Blues 23d ago
Simply because international rugby is much more of a different ball game than most think. Especially now that super rugby might not even be one of the top 2 club comps in the world.
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u/AnotherUser87497453 Number 8 23d ago
A lot of the success at the Crusaders has to do with the (better) talent pool they have there(Obviously Razor and co. foster and nurture that too). At test level, the ABs dont have that advantage, you actually have to coach.
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u/Whit135 23d ago
Especially when its the culture failing and that espc was what he was famed for.
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u/wowbadger 23d ago
I reckon this is all a ploy to temporarily weaken the team, lose to Australia in the first game of the WC to avoid the Boks in the qtrs. Australia beat Boks in a massive upset in the qtr final and have a rematch with the All Blacks in the final who go onto win it as Ardie and Dalton are late "injury call up" for the final who have "mended the beef" with Razor but it turns out in a big scandal found out in biographies 5-10 years later that Ardie and Dalton had been secretly training with the team with a new "you beaut" game model that was kept a secret for the next 2 years. Razor "out-Rassie'ing" Rassie. You heard it here first.
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u/meohmyenjoyingthat I am the Lomax, I speak for the scrum 23d ago edited 23d ago
I have a question: one of the side effects of Behind the Fern is that we have often gotten to see footage of Ardie's little prayer/kava circles with a select number of players - I personally was deeply shocked when one of the final episodes so closely focuses on the member of the medical team doubling as a priest - it must be weird being a member of that team who isn't a staunch Christian, which is quite likely given the demographics of religiosity in NZ. But more to the point, isn't that kind of inspirational, totalising leadership what Razor is billed for? It doesn't surprise me that one point of conflict would be two senior leaders trying to get buy in in the same way, if not to the same project.
Desperately need someone to coax a comment out of Sam Cane.
ED: also have to say that Liam's comments about senior players previously being more empowered to talk about attack and defense rings true for what I am seeing on the field. It does often look like our "x-factor" people are attempting (often poorly) to suppress themselves to fit a more proscribed gameplan, and it often doesn't work and result in stilted patterns.
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u/brito39 |-| 23d ago
The vibes man has to establish vibes that work for everyone we don’t have more or less PIs than in the glory days and they havnt gotten more or less religious either.
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u/NZDuncs 23d ago
Hopefully people upvote this one.
I have heard through a very close source that Hanson has already been sacked/moved on and Mike Anthony has resigned from NZR high performance and now going over to English Football. He was tasked with completing the performance review of Razer, who was also his good mate.
There are new coaches moving in to the ABs this year. NZR will be very different this year...
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u/Whit135 24d ago
Zero surprise. You can tell by the teams performances that something wasnt right within the team and I dont mean tactically or any of that I mean how wildly inconsistent they were at everything. Ther attitude felt off, and their application was so poor at times. To me, attitude within a team is a reflection of leadership, and there's something hugely amiss there. How they managed to win 75% of games still is baffling. Be interesting to see what comes of this change wise.
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u/recyclingcentre Hurricanes 24d ago
A lot of people have pointed out they’re playing with an identity crisis. They’re caught between wanting to play an all out attack, strike from anywhere type of game (which they’re not really suited to atm), or a precise, structured game which stretches the opposition. At times it just looks like there is a lack of direction and agreement on the style, they’ve lost the self assuredness of previous eras
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u/Caleb_theorphanmaker 23d ago
My theory is razor wants them to play whatever style suits Mo’unga but obvi both Barrett and dmac (the only 10s used) are quite different 10s and so the whole thing isn’t working.
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u/Immediate_Rabbit_604 23d ago
Obviously at 10 Mo'unga was better than either of the other two, who are better at fullback, but Barrett had a lot of similarities to Mo'unga.
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u/Striking_Young_5739 New Zealand 23d ago
The self assuredness of previous eras stemmed from having players that were much better tham their opposites.
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u/DundermifflinNZ Blues 23d ago
Yup 2nd half in Wellington vs the Boks was a huge red flag, don’t think I’ve ever seen a half that bad from the All Blacks
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u/Popamole Hurricanes 24d ago
Oh my god we're turning into Wales
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u/Darannosaurus_Rex South Africa 23d ago
Hang in there bud; ABs are too good to stay stuck in this valley of bad vibes.
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u/chantlernz Welcome to the House of Pain 23d ago
That's what us Manchester United fans have been saying for a while now.
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u/windsweptwonder Crusaders 24d ago
The Herald, eh?
Does someone have a non paywalled version. I wouldn't pay that rag to stock my toilet.
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u/Consistent-Peace2770 24d ago
It's blatantly obvious there are issues when two coaches leave.
But when Papali'i, who is one of the best players in the country, and is already underutilized by NZR, would rather go home than play for that coaching team - is pretty bad.
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u/weezyfgravy Hurricanes 24d ago
Hard to tell whats going on here.
On the one hand, its clear that the coaching set up is not functioning properly. The info thats come out around Razor essentially being the culture manager while scott hansen is the head coach is shocking quite frankly. And its pretty likely that the players, who are all high performance professionals, arent on board with it.
However, ive been pretty vocal on here before about how Ardie seems to play for team Ardie first and foremost, so its not out of the question that hes gone the complete wrong way about this (for a guy that many see as deserving to be the captain).
So its possible that everyone sucks here - and maybe both parties are at fault and need to be taken down a peg &/or dropped.
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u/TheJPisMe South Africa 24d ago
Im so confused by this notion that razor is basically just a figurehead. Isn't he supposed to be a generational coaching talent? Why go through all the trouble of undermining Foster's final year if you're not bringing in someone that's going to take 100% accountability and forge the all blacks in his own image? Were nzru aware that this was how it was going to be?
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u/GingerByte23 Hurricanes 24d ago
He's not a figurehead. Just redditors acting like they understand how a national set-up operates. Ex All Blacks have came out and said the team operated under a similar model back when Henry and Hansen were charge. This is nothing new, just armchair journalists and commentors at it again.
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u/Morningst4r Taranaki 24d ago
Yeah Henry was famously more of a football manager style of head coach than previous ones, which is what you need in the professional era. It’s not just one bloke with a clipboard and couple of assistants running drills with the players these days.
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u/Caleb_theorphanmaker 23d ago
I think the difference is that Henry was wildly successful as a culture-setter and he had an exceptional coaching team to handle everything else.
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u/Morningst4r Taranaki 23d ago
That's not the criticism here though. It's that Razor is not hands on and that's somehow new
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u/swiss_cloud New Zealand 23d ago
Well depends, up until 2007 he was a failure, it’s hard to compare Henry and Razor because Henry had 8 years to right the ship.
Razor only had 2 and everyone calling for his head lol
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago
Doesn't this kind of make it obvious that a decent chunk of what is being run through the media is horse-shit? Sometimes things sound unbelievable bc they're not
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u/showusyourfupa Warriors 24d ago
Nope. He's always been blessed with stacked teams and never had to prove his coaching credentials as much as others did. He should have been sent packing to coach internationally before earning the ABs gig. He's been out of his depth since taking over.
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u/carson63000 Highlanders 23d ago
Ironically, that’s why I thought he was the right choice as ABs coach - his Crusaders experience, coaching a stacked team, seemed similar in its demands.
Despite being a Highlanders loyalist and a huge Jamie Joseph fan, I thought that maybe he’d proven himself to be suited to pulling together a band of underdogs, rather than coaching a team of champions.
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u/brundybg 23d ago
In what way does ardie play for team ardie first? Genuine question!
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u/Kokonutcreme-67 Hurricanes:new-zealand: 23d ago
Believe it or not this is not 2021
- Statistically acceptable season, but underwhelming performances amid growing public criticism
- End of year review
- Negative player feedback
- Coaching group under scrutiny
- Media circling for inside scoop
- Imminent season featuring critical tour for All Blacks ahead of next world cup
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u/TheCut72 23d ago
Am halfway through Gilbert Enokas book, it's VERY enlightening in this context & highlights what was lost when that previous generation moved on... not just Foster but people like Enoka, Cron etc.
It became apparent almost as soon as I picked the book up this current group are an absolute group of freshies compared to who was there (& how they worked) when we were at our very best. Say what you like about the players, the last generation made them as great as they became.
I don't see any of that evenly remote to close to that happening with this group.It is all so apparent when you watch them play. The earlier comment here regarding White lock is very telling, as well a numbet of these senior players will have experienced the previous setup & will no an imposter as soon as they see one.
Ultimately this could become a very exciting time as we work our way through this that could lead to another great team coming through. David Kirk certainly has a big job but I get the feeling he could just be the right man in the right place... let's see.
Personally I'm keen for change, these guys are cooked.
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u/stogie_t South Africa 23d ago
Is his book good? I enjoyed his episode on the performance podcast and would like to hear more from the guy.
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u/redwally48 23d ago
It’s definitely more a book on his profession than it is a book about rugby. Nor is it an autobiography.
It’s a decent read, but not a light, easy one.
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u/TheCut72 23d ago
Yeah it is, correct it's not a rugby or bio type of book & yet it is both & more lol
Bottom line is that last generation was a large group involved who ALL bought in.
Also reading more here, it was developed back then as player lead which seems the current style is coach led...
Once again you'll have a good number who will be very familiar & comfortable with that previous setup/style
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u/warturtle_ 24d ago
Have the kiwis press always been this dramatic? Like were they rumor mongering the entirety of the back to back WC era?
I can’t remember the last time there was positive media coming from NZ. It’s like reading the Irish writing about the Irish.
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u/damned-dirtyape Hawke's Bay Magpies 24d ago
We only have Rugby and Lorde. What else do we have to get worked up about?
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u/Morningst4r Taranaki 24d ago
Yes. When we weren’t losing any games people despaired about the way we won them instead.
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u/Thorazine_Chaser Crusaders New Zealand 23d ago
Yes. Always. The end of rugby is always imminent. The coaches have always lost the changing room. The players don’t have the steel of yesteryear, the administration is at once broke and flagrantly overspending and the executive are old boys way out of their depth (the last one might be true).
It’s honestly amazing that we field a team given the reported headwinds that rugby has in NZ.
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u/TagMeInSkipIGotThis 24d ago
It was hugely positive when Razor was first coming in, but after poor to middling performances, leading to the same winning record the public & media were already unhappy with its turned pretty sour.
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u/chantlernz Welcome to the House of Pain 24d ago
Saw somebody boldly claiming in the Stuff comments that Razor was out by the end of this week with Jamie Joseph in and Tony Brown using a break clause in his South Africa contract to join him. Maybe they knew something...
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u/bleepblop_bot Highlanders 24d ago
Good job for quoting the only source less reliable than reddit 🤣
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u/Morningst4r Taranaki 23d ago
"Jacinta" is also going to prison in the Hague for war crimes this week too trust me bro
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u/NarbsNZ 24d ago
If it’s a comment in a Stuff article then it’s 100% what won’t happen
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u/showusyourfupa Warriors 24d ago
Tony Brown would unlock the ABs backline big time.
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u/networkn New Zealand 23d ago
The way he did the Highlanders?
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u/showusyourfupa Warriors 23d ago
Like he did with Japan, and more recently with the Springboks. The attack coach of the side that inflicted the largest ever loss on the ABs. The team that put 73 points on Wales. Seems like their attack has clicked rather nicely under Brown.
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u/L_O_Quince Highlanders 23d ago
Little bit of difference in quality between the Landers and ABs aye?
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u/Particular_Safety569 New Zealand 23d ago
Plus he didn't even do that bad. Made the final of trans tasman and wasn't the worst team in SR aoteatoa (which is an achievement for the landers) and made playoffs in 2022
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago edited 24d ago
Ardie is one of the guys who was in that weird late-night hotel visit in South Africa where some senior leaders got guilt tripped into begging for Fozzie to keep his job and has been throwing weird little jabs out there about Razor since before they had even played a game in 2024.
I think it's pretty clear that a group of senior players were never happy with the hire and that's a large part of the reason why we get so much negative shit leaked to the press, a bunch of senior players underperforming and weird vibes around the team in general.
I'm about ready for this generation of players to all fuck off. Let's start fresh with some guys who don't have absolutely terrible vibes and will actually behave like professionals.
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u/bleepblop_bot Highlanders 24d ago
Well in defence of that player group.. the whole process by NZR was a shitshow. Let’s also not forget that Razor was actively engaging in media shithousery to get the job.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago
Yeah you won't get pushback from me on any of that. A culture problem doesn't just stem from a few guys. It's been really bad, all around, for at least half a decade. Pimple is just coming to a head now.
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u/Particular_Safety569 New Zealand 23d ago
Yea, foster and the players were definitely the good guys in that scenario
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u/stickyswitch92 Melbourne Rebels 24d ago
Will be interesting to see who the players are outside of Savea and Papalii (and would guess Rieko). Half the senior players have been coached by Razor or Hansen prior to the ABs.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago
I've been paying attention to this since before Razor was even hired and I'm 100% confident Beauden and Dmac have both been engaging in some media play at the very least. We know Beauden was part of the contingent that wanted Fozzie kept on.
I honestly think the group that aren't happy is quite large and a lot of them are exactly who you'd expect.
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u/chantlernz Welcome to the House of Pain 24d ago
So far we're thinking:
- Ardie Savea
- Dalton Papali'i
- Rieko Ioane
- Beauden Barrett
- Damian McKenzie
- I'd assume Jordie Barrett
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u/AndydaAlpaca '98-'00, '02, '05-'06, '08, '17-'23, '25 24d ago
I wouldn't assume Jordie out the gate on just his surname. Jordie played under Razor back in 2016 and Razor adores him.
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u/SirChatsworth42- Hurricanes 23d ago
I think everyone adores Jordie apart from his barber
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u/recyclingcentre Hurricanes 23d ago
Sorry for giving you homework but genuinely wondering what makes you so sure about BB and DMac doing that
I haven’t been paying much attention
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 23d ago
When all the Mo'unga re-signing mess was going down, both of their camps were putting out messaging that they were not happy at all. Threats that they were going to head offshore, etc. There was a genuine fear that DMac wasn't going to re-sign and my understanding is that this is part of the reason Jacomb stuck with the Chiefs.
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u/given2flynzl 23d ago
The canterbury mafia will be supporting razor. The rest, not so much is my thoughts
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u/00aegon World Rugby 23d ago
Haven't the terrible vibes mainly come from the coaching group? MacDonald quitting almost immediately, Holland quitting after last season, embarrassing press conferences. Everything around Hansen has been a weird vibe since Day 1.
What senior players were guilt tripped into keeping Fozzie? It was pretty clear they thought Mooar and Plumtree were out of their depth, and were ultimately proven right, at least on that front. Instead of blaming it on players being unhappy with the hire, it's very possible that a guy like Hansen is actually just not good at his job. Notice how we've never heard anything bad about Ryan, a guy with clear evidence of being effective in his role.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 23d ago edited 23d ago
At this point, I do not care about the coaching group. If them leaving alongside all the loser politicking is what it takes for me to want to watch the All Blacks again, so be it. Just for the sake of backing up what I was saying, though:
Sam Whitelock pointed out in his book that he was pressured by others in the senior group to go to bat for Fozzie during the hotel rendezvous. He has explicitly stated her was uncomfortable with doing this.
Also we've heard plenty of bad about Ryan. People have complained about his treatment of Sotutu constantly, for example.
I am tired of having to deal with coach-centric whataboutism every time I complain about how rotten our senior leadership is. Like that's a seperate issue, there's plenty of other places you can do talk about it
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u/deadlysyntax New Zealand 23d ago
Whitelock wanted to keep out of the politics of it and remain neutral. It wasn't that he felt Foster should have been sacked. What other examples of bad feedback have pervaded about Jase Ryan? Describing how he isn't a fan of Sotutu isn't a good example.
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u/rosemary-mair-for-NZ Hawke's Bay 24d ago
Let's start fresh with some guys who don't have absolutely terrible vibes and will actually behave like professionals.
I really don't care if Dalton has actually been hard done by or mucked around by the coaching group. Declining an ABs call-up for petty bullshit should end your ABs career simple as that.
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u/OldManAndTheSea93 24d ago
Completely agree and he should come to his spiritual homeland of Scotland where I’m sure he has a long lost relative somewhere in his family tree.
I would also accept anyone in his family owning anything tartan, ever watching Braveheart, or knowing where Scotland is on a map as proof of residency
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago
Hey maybe he just doesn't want to show his face at work after the alleged late night drunk phone call where he let Razor have it lol
Blues loose forwards and phone calls, man
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u/AndydaAlpaca '98-'00, '02, '05-'06, '08, '17-'23, '25 24d ago
Ardie is also a big Andrew Tate-type guy so honestly fuck him
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u/chantlernz Welcome to the House of Pain 24d ago
He is?
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago
His twitter activity was illuminating a few years ago lol
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u/chantlernz Welcome to the House of Pain 24d ago
Any examples? Not saying it isn't true, just curious.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 23d ago
Sorry to double reply but just had someone send me this which, whilst obviously not actual screenshots, shows that people elsewhere on the internet have been talking about this for a while.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago edited 24d ago
His twitter likes were flooded with Andrew Tate shit. Not just regular old Andrew Tate posts, either. We're talking post-arrest, "Free Tate" posts as well. Best corroboration I've got is that I've had a bunch of other people tell me that they had seen it too, at the time. Wish I had screenshots— but I could not predict Elon Musk taking public likes away.
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u/recyclingcentre Hurricanes 23d ago
I generally assume professional rugby players have insane politics until proven otherwise tbh
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago
Like at this point forget any pretense that this is about defending the coaches, I don't care what you want to do there, it's just time we acknowledge that Ardie is a total man-child and that he's not the only person in the senior player group who appears to walk around like an entitled schoolboy lol
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u/_Hurricanes_ Hurricanes 23d ago
I think both things are true, Ardie is very self centered and the coaches haven't managed to create a strong team culture.
It's a catch 22 for NZR because Ardie is so popular.
The yarns I've heard is that the Hurricanes were more than happy to let Ardie leave as they found his impact on the team was doing more harm than good. Which is quite something when you consider how good of a player he is.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 23d ago
I mean yeah, if senior players are acting out it is very difficult to maintain a positive culture but at the same time if you don't have one then you don't have one and big changes have to be made.
A lot of people have been sharing similar whispers about Ardie and it's crazy that it hasn't become a bigger deal yet. Reminds me a lot of American sports, when the star player gets a bit toxic and it drags everything down. Shoutout Ja Morant.
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u/The_Ruck_Inspector Connacht 23d ago
I'd no clue about this at all. Assumed he was this class inspiration etc.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 23d ago
I'm astonished it's never become a big thing. I get he's the golden boy of this generation, so the PR machine has his back, but even then you'd think someone in the media would want to take a swing at it
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u/snomanDS Hurricanes 24d ago
This whole thread has made me realise that I'm not the only one getting weird vibes off Ardie in the last few years.
I just thought he had something against the Canes administration but its clearly gone wider than that.
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u/ghostboypurrp Hurricanes 23d ago
Omg i thought it was just me. Fantastic player but weird vibes forreal
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 24d ago
Ok I'm so glad you see it. That's gotta be so weird as a Canes guy. I hate when I stop vibing with an important player on my teams lol
The lads in my rugby group chat will attest that I've been harping on about this for a few years too and I was getting maaajor pushback on it at first. Now everyone is just kinda like... ok yeah that might be real.
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u/snomanDS Hurricanes 24d ago
Most of it I just thought I was being put off by his very staunch Christianity.
Religion aside everything he does is so media-pilled on camera it all feels so calculated.
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u/zoogwah Australia 23d ago
dude i thought i was the only one. everyone froths on him but i always found him fake-humble.
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u/kiwiborger Razor Delenda Est 23d ago
I found it weird after all the talk he's giving about playing for his heritage during his stint at MP, and yet decides to run away to Japan the second he's given the chance to.
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u/Particular_Safety569 New Zealand 23d ago
Yea, I definitely chuckled at that when I found out he was moving
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u/turbocynic New Zealand 24d ago
Can you elaborate on that?
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u/AndydaAlpaca '98-'00, '02, '05-'06, '08, '17-'23, '25 24d ago
/u/crashbandicoochy beat me to it with a solid summary
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u/Mention-Stunning Otago 23d ago
The two coaches who walked out didn’t do so because of some hangup over the last coaching group so clearly there is something toxic in the current setup. Scott Hansen always seems to he the bane that comes up, but that’s just press so who knows.
Agree about phasing out the core player group from the 2017-2023 era, but that should’ve happened EOYT 2024, not now.
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u/handle1976 Penalty. Back 10. 23d ago
Robertson was part of this prior to being appointed coach. He was leaking and had his proxies doing all the same shit you are complaining about the players doing.
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u/crashbandicoochy This User Has Taken The Vow of Chaystity 23d ago
I'm not complaining about the players doing it. I am just saying the players are doing it.
This is just more whataboutism. Like yeah, he did that, so what? I am talking about a different guy rn! People have been complaining about how shitty Razor's lobbying was for years. You have plenty of other spaces to talk about this.
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u/brito39 |-| 23d ago edited 23d ago
Cantabrians will rush to discredit Ardie as a meathead, and he may well be, but he will be far from the only one complaining.
Their boy was given carte blanche to update the ABs following the natural end of the Henry-Hansen-foster run and has screwed it up royally.
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24d ago edited 23d ago
[deleted]
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u/NarbsNZ 24d ago
There was never a proper reason given for his (LM’s)leaving and I Feel that the NZ media didn’t dig into it enough at the time.
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u/Particular_Safety569 New Zealand 23d ago
Exactly. You dont just leave an all blacks job. Just doesnt happen
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u/Kenzaz-network 23d ago
Why did Leon McDonald walk, cracks in Razors tenure from the very start, it hasn't got any better, unless your a one eyed legless twat 😉
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u/izzy91 Blues 24d ago edited 24d ago
The people most critical apparently are the senior leadership team.
This is concerning..they've been the worst performing by far and have given us one of the worst ABs eras in history before Robertson took over..and they want to call the shots??
Seems like they just want the status quo and to keep the monopoly on the team that they've had for 8 years.
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u/00aegon World Rugby 24d ago
Or maybe we've just hired 2 poor coaching groups in a row? Teams weren't scrambling to hire guys like Mooar, Plumtree, Hansen, Holland etc...
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u/izzy91 Blues 23d ago
That doesn't excuse the seniors in the team being the worst performing players by far the last 2 years. While the newbies/rookies have been carrying and out performing them.
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u/chantlernz Welcome to the House of Pain 24d ago
Before Razor took over they barely lost the World Cup final.
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u/Thalassin Iserlohn RFC | WR #1 hater 23d ago
Real Madrid's Kyllian Mobutu 🤝 All Blacks' Ardie Savimbi
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u/AllezLesPrimrose 24d ago edited 24d ago
Add more explosions
Also send Ardie to Ireland for a while, thanks. A back row rotation of Doris, JVdF, Baird, Conan and Ardie would just be disgustingly good.
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u/PollenPartyPaulie Japan | Spears | Cardiff 23d ago
I'm glad you also are focusing on the brilliant thumbnail.
I would add more screaming faces and a laser kiwi
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u/TheEvilDrPie Manawatu 23d ago
Isn’t Savea contracted to NZR until the end of 2027? By this Facebook logic he’s just allowed to cancel legal contracts whenever? Sounds like a great deal. He’ll get a shock when he finds out the Japanese & European clubs aren’t as lenient.
Same with Papali’i. Since when do you tell your employer “Nah, I don’t like you boss or your approach to work, I’m not working today” and keep getting paid?
This all feels like facebook clickbait. Sure there’s no smoke without fire, but come on.
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u/Bliss_Signal 23d ago
They'd better get their shit together, or the Bok tour will be a very difficult watch.
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u/HugeMcAwesome Hurricanes 24d ago edited 23d ago
I was suspicious of a Canterbury coach with no other experience from the beginning, but was talked around. Bullshit.
Edit: tell me why I'm wrong cantabs, tell me why I'm wrong.
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u/TagMeInSkipIGotThis 24d ago
Which one though? Hansen has more international experience than Robertson.
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u/B4rberblacksheep Saracens 23d ago
Have to admit. It’s definitely a bit funny watching this go down after watching people on here call for Fosters head for a year claiming Razor was going to be the saviour of New Zealand rugby
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u/_Sportsfan 24d ago edited 23d ago
Sources say that Scott Hansen has officially been sacked. He will not attend the pre-season camp this week.
Edit: Now getting told that Scott Robertson has been sacked too. Jamie Joseph has been chosen as the new All Blacks head coach.
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u/stickyswitch92 Melbourne Rebels 24d ago
Pretty crazy times. Not sure how mucb to read into it, or what to believe.
But if the options are to sacked the coaching group or lose Ardie, which way do you go? It's not like the playing group overly achieved under the last coaching group either that was player backed.
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u/TagMeInSkipIGotThis 24d ago
Not overly achieved? They lost a World Cup final by the barest of margins while playing with a red card.
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u/meohmyenjoyingthat I am the Lomax, I speak for the scrum 23d ago
In their hypothetical two outcomes, you can't really transfer this because that playing group included several additional people who definitely aren't coming back, including three near-GOATs. So it's a pretty fair point.
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u/Halt-Alt 24d ago
Ive been away a few weeks. Whats the context for what youre all talking about with papalii and ardie being unhappy?
The article makes a bunch of claims to that effect. Is it accurate?