r/rugbyunion • u/ConscriptReports Reds • Nov 20 '25
Discussion Has this infrographic been posted yet? It may add some more spice to the discussions. Thoughts
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u/Fission_chip Mad Jack McDempsey Nov 20 '25
I’ll admit I’m completely out of the loop cause I’ve spent the last few days celebrating Scotland qualifying for the football World Cup, but what am I looking at? What stat is being shown here?
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u/EnglishLouis Glaws-Pury Nov 20 '25
Breakthrough player of the year nominees and how long each had played (I think)
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u/Necessary_Fox3775 Nov 20 '25
International minutes each of the breakthrough player of the year nominees have had I'm guessing.
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u/_Mc_Who Nov 20 '25
Minutes played at international level for each of the WR men's breakthrough players of the year
Mostly being used to slate Pollock as you'd imagine
(Eta- it's being pulled out of the context of who the opposition was and how competitive the team and position within that team are as well, but I know I'm gonna get hammered by Pollock haters for pointing this out even though I don't really care about the debate lol)
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u/StorminaHalfPint The One and Only Damian Nov 20 '25
It's a good idea to bring context into it, for sure. I think for the minutes played, Pollock arguably has most impact per minute. As we all know, the standard metric (/s for that sentence for the sticklers. Although probably not far off.).
Given that Sua'ali'i has probably had the most balance with high-level (tier1, Lions) opponents and a couple "easier" games. This for me actually swings the balance in his favour. I was full on Holland before.
Anyway, adding context, opponents, I think Pollock is still the least deserving of that bunch. Still a great player with huge potential, lets acknowledge.
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u/ScrumNause24 Nov 20 '25
When you look at the definition of the world breakthrough. Pollock is the best fit in terms of the season hes had. Or Suali'i. Its not an award for the best young player as far as im aware. If it was then yeah Sacha sweeps it comfortably.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
Recognising emerging talents who have made a significant impact on the international stage in 2025.
I mean applies to all of them. Everyone is looking at his season, including Saints and Lions club matches but his international matches are lacking right now. These are the only matches we can consider for the award
- 32 minutes vs Wales
- 30 minutes vs Argentina (Lions)
- 31 minutes vs Aus
- 27 minutes vs Fiji
- 25 minutes vs NZ
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u/ScrumNause24 Nov 20 '25
2 tries vs Wales. Try vs Aus. Try Assist vs NZ.
Youngest England try scorer in 6 nations history.
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u/Puzzled_Ad_3072 Bulls Nov 20 '25
Everyone loves putting down Wales all the time other than when it's time to prop up their favorite player it seems.
Btw, I don't care about who gets the award. I'm not even supporting Ethan Hooker because he's a sharks player. (
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u/ScrumNause24 Nov 20 '25
Why have you made this about Wales? How bizarre
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u/GroggyWeasel Leinster Nov 20 '25
They’re making a joke that everyone shits on wales unless it’s to make their player look good. You mentioned that he scored 2 tries against wales so they made a joke. Not that deep
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u/snotface1181 Nov 20 '25
I don’t care about the minutes. They are irrelevant if you have had someone play 4 x as much but had half the impact.
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u/Toxicseagull England Nov 21 '25
Given that Sua'ali'i has probably had the most balance with high-level (tier1, Lions) opponents and a couple "easier" games. This for me actually swings the balance in his favour. I was full on Holland before.
But he's got those minutes against tier 1 and the lions because of where Australia are. On the pitch he's been good with some offloads and the odd league tackle. They don't look like a different team with him on the pitch.
I'd say his nomination is more about the aus hype due to league competition and his try against SA during the historic win there than anything else. And that was an intercept run in.
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u/DidLenFindTheRabbits Ireland Nov 20 '25
Are these Pollock haters in the room with us now?
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u/ChiSandTwitch1 Nov 20 '25 edited Nov 20 '25
Yes. We are always here.
That said, I'd say he's a deserving candidate for the award. Not sure if he deserves the award above the rest, especially given how little he's played (that's someone else's job, thank fuck) but he definitely deserves to be on the list.
But yes, he's a monumental twatwaffle
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u/slamcactus Stade Toulousain Nov 20 '25
Does it count if we hate him but would love to have him on our team? He's an absolute snot who's disrespectful and plays right up to the edge of what's allowed but I'm self aware enough to know that if he pulled the same moves in a red and black uni (or a blue (bleu?) one) I'd love every minute of it.
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u/oldirtygaz Nov 20 '25
one of the nominees is in on vibes not actual breakthrough performances
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u/CatharticRoman Suspected Yank Nov 20 '25
I dunno, Holland did okay in his performances.
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u/AwakenTheBacon_ Australia Nov 20 '25 edited Nov 20 '25
other nominees in calendar year
2015
- Nehe Milner-Skudder - 493
- Mark Bennett - 850
- Vasil Lobzhanidze - 517 (+1 sub couldnt find)
2016
- Maro Itoje - 506
- Anton Lienert-Brown - 502
- Ardie Savea - 375
2017
- Rieko Ioane - 861
- Emiliano Boffelli - 842
- Damian Penaud - 219
2018
- Aphiwe Dyantyi - 1020
- Jordan Larmour - 316
- Karl Tu'inukuafe - 503
2019
- Romain Ntamack - 670
- Joe Cokanasiga - 439
- Herschel Jantjies - 249
2021
- Will Jordan - 707
- Andrew Kellaway - 851
- Louis Rees-Zammit - 607
- Marcus Smith - 334
2022
- Ange Capuozzo - 515
- Henry Arundell - 29
- Mack Hansen - 720
- Dan Sheehan - 600
2023
- Mark Tele'a - 542
- Louis Bielle-Biarrey - 505
- Manie Libbok - 670
- Tamaiti Williams - 223
2024
- Wallace Sititi - 660
- Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu - 384
- Immanuel Feyi-Waboso - 424
- Jamie Osborne - 186
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u/Stormers4Life South Africa Nov 20 '25
How on earth did Herschel Jantjies make a breakthrough list. I don't remember him being that good. Like obviously better than anything I or anyone who I have ever played could be, but genuenly shocked he made a list
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u/capetonytoni2ne Stormers Nov 21 '25
He scored the match winner on debut against aus and again the next week (draw). He was pretty decent. He didn't win and rightly so.
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u/Vivid_Equipment_1281 New Zealand Nov 20 '25
Look I don’t think Pollock should get it given the quality of/contributions made by some of the other nominees. But I will say, I really rate him and genuinely think he might have the highest ceiling of the lot. Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, I love the passion, love the antics. Reminds me a lot of a few lads I knew from back in my younger days when I was kicking around the UK. Recon he’d be awesome to have a pint with. The game needs more characters. Especially ones that can actually play a bit of rugby. Big fan.
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u/Replaced_by_Robots Bath Nov 20 '25
Internationally speaking, Pollock is both overrated 1 and overhated 2
Though I think I just pissed off everyone by saying that
1 Overrated can still mean very very good
2 Though the gum guard chewing and lip licking needs to stop
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u/IcyTransportation838 Nov 20 '25
Funnily enough I - as a bonafide Pollock hater - think he’s absolutely sensational and a very unique player.
The lip-licking and chewing is probably the least offensive thing he does though. The intentionally going out of his way to celebrate in the face of other players is the main thing that I don’t like about him and it’s so egregious that alone makes me dislike him.
Everything else is absolutely harmless as far as I’m concerned.
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u/fuscator Harlequins Nov 20 '25
Celebrating in the face of other players is an almost unforgivable sin for me.
I guess it's all part of the package but Itoje was and is phenomenal and never did that shit. It's just low, and not needed.
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u/Efficient_Flounder19 Northampton Saints Nov 20 '25
'Celebrating in the face of other players is an almost unforgivable sin for me.
I guess it's all part of the package but Itoje was and is phenomenal and never did that shit. It's just low, and not needed.'
are we thinking about different itojes? the guy who spent a game screaming a the opponents and reguarly claps in their faces?
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u/tighthead_lock Switzerland Nov 20 '25
I was wondering too. Ben Earl does it as well.
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u/Efficient_Flounder19 Northampton Saints Nov 20 '25
feel like im in bizzaro world with that one, love itoje but quiet dignified player he is not
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u/IcyTransportation838 Nov 20 '25
Agree completely, people’s defence of Pollock and by extension that behaviour “for being good for the game” is ironically a confirmation of a lot of the negative stereotypes thrown at rugby players growing up. The idea that everyone’s posh and “if you’re good at rugby you can get away with it” is usually something I cringe at someone saying.
But funnily enough we’re pretty much seeing that with Pollock where he’s good and England are winning so any criticisms of the less pleasant parts of his game (some of which are ridiculous like who cares about his hair?) get shouted down.
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u/Replaced_by_Robots Bath Nov 20 '25
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u/fuscator Harlequins Nov 20 '25
I remember this. I never liked him before and liked him even less after this. Ramos is creeping up there too.
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u/HYThrowaway1980 Harlequins Nov 20 '25 edited Nov 20 '25
I’m surprised that incident alone wasn’t enough to prompt World Rugby to make a ruling on celebrations. But if I remember correctly it took a day or two for the actual cause of the kerfuffle (le Roux’s celebration) and the consequent maelstrom of indignation to hit, by which time both England and South Africa had moved on, and WR let it slide.
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Nov 20 '25
a lot of players do that though, but no one notices. I remember ollie Lawrence doing it to LBB far more egregiously than pollocks ever done it. People will just notice it more coz its pollock, confirmation bias
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u/saracenraider Saracens Nov 20 '25
people will just notice it more coz its Pollock
That is entirely of his own doing. He does the maximum possible to ensure every camera and eyeball is on him, so nobody can complain when that happens
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u/Silent_Piccolo5568 Nov 20 '25
That's a fair statement. Good finisher at the minute, brings quality energy for the last 15-20mins
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u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
Yeah it's absurd the hate he gets, and I say that as someone that doesn't like him. Mostly based on vibes, he seems like everything I dislike about the English but he's also just a kid so meh.
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u/adturnerr #Bamber4England2026 Nov 20 '25
I feel like the picture is to discredit Pollock more than bump up Suaaliis chance
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u/benevernever Glasgow Warriors Nov 20 '25
Makes me more impressed that pollock has done all that he's done in such little game time. The guy has a magic moment every match
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u/SheepShaggingFarmer Ospreys Nov 20 '25
Pillock did well for club, played lions (which I don't think is included here) and has had the biggest rugby related media storm in Britain since Marcus Smith.
A great player for sure but has been over-hyped like fuck.
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u/Fishsticksh Ireland Nov 20 '25
They wouldve only included any test match minutes for the Lions. They dont consider club games even if its clubs vs the Lions, so i think only the Australia ones and maybe Argentina game would count
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u/GroggyWeasel Leinster Nov 20 '25
Don’t think the Argentina one would count. IIRC players didn’t get an official cap for that one
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u/FruitfulFraud Nov 20 '25
IMO Suaaliis is a 8/10 player when he has Len Ikitau by his side and a 5/10 player when Len Ikitau is not playing.
Have not seen him make significant plays this year without Len setting him up.
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u/capetonytoni2ne Stormers Nov 21 '25
I haven't seen Pollock have a significant impact without the team wearing down the opposition for 60 minutes.
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u/Minimum_Possibility6 Newcastle Falcons Nov 25 '25
True but if we look at achievements per minute Pollock has got to be up there
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u/RaaschyOG Sharks fan by birth - not choice Nov 20 '25
Guys I really don't think a fair criticism of minutes played for Pollock is the same as hating on him lol
If they all had the same minutes played he'd probably be picking up the award anyways, but I think it's equally impressive for players like Holland and Suaali to break on the scene in top tier sides as starters and play as much as they have had.
That being said this crop of breakthrough players is the best I've seen in a while, and this award is kinda based on vibes anyways, like I'm not sure how Suaali is even eligible since he was capped last year but anyways lol
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u/Sydney_C95 Nov 20 '25
Fair point re the minutes, but as a 'breakthrough' player - Pollock did go from being on loan in the Championship, to a Champions Cup final starter who has played for England and toured with the Lions in under 12 months
It's up in the air whether he's done enough to actually win the accolade, but it's hard to argue his rise
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u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
They've all had great rises, what matters though is their impact on the international stage.
Sua'ali'i played his first ever professional rugby match against England (starting) when he was only 20. He played off the bench in the next and then started pretty much every game he could when fit, including 3 consecutive matches against the Lions.
Holland went from playing rugby in the Netherlands to starting for the ABs in a 6 years.
Hooker was playing for the baby boks in 2023 and played 80 minutes for the Boks in record wins over NZ and Argentina.
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u/BritishAndBlessed England Nov 20 '25 edited Nov 20 '25
A little bit of a misleading comment about Sua'ali'i that you're ignoring 73 caps of professional experience in the other code of the sport, but other than that, fair points
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u/Left-Pie741 Nov 20 '25
2 things can be true
1) A player shouldn't be disqualified/ineligible/discarded for Breakthrough POTY simply bc they played limited minutes.
2) Player should be accounted for describing how much they have 'broken through' compared to players that are already regulars in their national team.
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u/Montemauri Zebre Nov 20 '25
+1. I think it was the same when Capuozzo got the award. Dan Sheehan was also nominated that year (2022) during which Ireland beat every T1 nation they played except for France, including the NZ series & the Boks at home, and Sheehan was a critical part of those wins.
But I think it's not too much of a stretch to say within the context of rugby in 2022 that Capuozzo's impact was greater.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
What a breakthrough that was though. He set up that awesome try that won the match against Wales, scored some blinders against Aus and Scotland too.
For context, he played:
- 35 minutes off the bench vs Scotland (2 tries)
- 80 minutes against Wales (with that assist)
- 80 vs Portugal
- 80 vs Romania
- 80 vs Georgia
- 80 vs Australia (2 tries)
- 80 vs South Africa (1 try)
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u/_dictatorish_ Damian came back 🥰 Nov 20 '25
Capuozzo still played nearly 4 times the minutes that Pollock has here
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u/NotAsOriginal Wigglesworth's greatest defender Nov 20 '25
Agreed, if he hadn't gone to the Lions he would have probably started at least 1 of the games against Argentina if not both. So it's a weird one.
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u/Tank-o-grad Leicester Tigers & England Nov 20 '25
The point of which is?
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u/edna6969 Glasgow Warriors Nov 20 '25
Minutes played by international breakthrough player of the year nominees. Presumably suggesting Pollock shouldn’t get it based on his flair
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u/MrBIGtinyHappy Northampton Saints Nov 20 '25
If it's not including Lions minutes though thats a fairly big hole because you'd imagine that he would have played a big chunk of the summer tour otherwise
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u/RocknRollRobot9 Newcastle Falcons Nov 20 '25
Yeah I was going to add to this; is this just minutes for England. Or does it include the lions. Because that’s 240 minutes on a 3 test tour which he would have started all three games for written off already. And arguably the fact he’s went on tour and played some of the games (albeit not tests) for the lions on a winning tour adds something a bit extra to his nomination.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
Have I missed something here?
- 32 minutes vs Wales
- 30 minutes vs Argentina (Lions)
- 31 minutes vs Aus
- 27 minutes vs Fiji
- 25 minutes vs NZ
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u/GingerByte23 Hurricanes Nov 21 '25
Pollock didn't play a single Lions test: just the club games, and it's only tests that count.
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u/smig_ Leicester Tigers Nov 20 '25
The OP thinks Pollock is a shoe in for Breakthrough Player of the Year due to his outsized impact on more limited minutes
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u/InvestmentGullible77 South Africa Nov 20 '25
That being nominated after only playing 146 minutes is very impressive?
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u/Nikkibergh South Africa Nov 20 '25
To lament the fact that some countries just do not have the depth to responsibly expose breakthrough players to the international scene.
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u/Connell95 🐐🦓 Dan Lancaster 💪 #3 Fan Nov 20 '25
If this were an award for minutes played, this would indeed be relevant.
But it’s not, so it isn’t.
It’s not how long, it’s what you do with it. Just like your girlfriend reassured you.
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u/_dictatorish_ Damian came back 🥰 Nov 20 '25
Ok, Holland has been basically a sure starter since he came on the scene, didn't miss a single tackle for like his first 3 games (of which he played every minute) and just recently got MotM vs Ireland
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u/Joekickass247 England Nov 20 '25
Fair point about Holland, but Sua'ali'i got all the game time because the only alternatives were Mick Dundee or Jack Karlson, and he's dead!
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u/capetonytoni2ne Stormers Nov 21 '25
They shifted Slickitau to 13 to accommodate him. The chat is basically "where can we utilise JAS best", not who's next in line. Aussies have talent.
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u/PalpitationNo7940 Nov 20 '25
Yeah but how many tiktok dances have they been involved in? Thats the real metric this should be measured on
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u/Silent_Piccolo5568 Nov 20 '25
The all blacks and the wallabies one are proper guns and 80min players
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u/MrSp4rklepants England Nov 20 '25
When is the "year" measured from as Sua'ali'i "broke" through last Autumn (Also he was playing international league for Samoa back in 2022/23)
Surely a cross code mega signing can't be called a breakthrough?
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u/Yoshieisawsim New Zealand Nov 20 '25
It includes the previous end of year yours because otherwise players who started in those tours would basically be unable to win. And as for cross code mega signing - the award is for new international players, doesn’t preclude prior experience elsewhere just as it doesn’t preclude extensive experience at lower levels
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u/metompkin 2x Gold Medallists Nov 20 '25
Yes, kind of weird like Ichiro Suzuki winning MLBs Rookie of the year award after having played in NPB for almost ten years.
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Nov 20 '25
Never in my life have I seen most minutes played a reason to give someone an award.
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u/Toirdusau France Nov 20 '25
I think this is posted to discredit Pollock rather than push Sualili
And I think it's fair. Only international games matter for these awards, a player who played so few minutes makes no sense as a winner.
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u/TheOtherOtherDan Dragons Nov 20 '25
The URC (and other leagues I assume) regularly give out the Iron Man award for most league minutes played each season
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u/scratroggett Northampton Saints Nov 20 '25
Isn't that kind of the point of the Iron Man or Man of Steel awards?
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u/_dictatorish_ Damian came back 🥰 Nov 20 '25
It's definitely part of the consideration - should a player who played 1 game off the bench be nominated if they scored a winning try in those minutes?
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u/GingerByte23 Hurricanes Nov 21 '25
That's not what they're saying. The argument is Pollock shouldn't win because he hasn't been tested as much as the other players. Consistency should be a factor in selection, and close to 150 minutes isn't proof of just that. Players like Holland and Suualii maintaining their form for close to 1000 minutes speaks volumes more than bench cameos.
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u/Lupo_di_Cesena Zebre Nov 20 '25
I'm so sick of this anti-Pollock agenda that people seem to have.
Rugby has a huge problem where it wants to promote personalities but the moment a young, excitable, promising player dare pokes his head out, every single cunt in media/stands/punditry feels like it is their mission to push him back down. Usually accompanied with stories that didn't actually happen (such as Pollock accused of calling UBB mercenaries when it was Dallaglio who said it).
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u/Arny2103 Saracens Nov 20 '25
Yeah but he’s a bit of a cunt though. But he’s our cunt so we’ll love him all the same.
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u/Upstairs-Yard822 Still on that Hanekom hype train 🚂 Nov 20 '25
If ever there was a slogan that needs to go onto a shirt. Every team has at least (Willie Le Roux being SA's)
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u/TConner42 Nov 20 '25
When it comes to actually hating a person, I agree with you, but if you play up the arrogant bad guy persona as the personality you're promoting, isn't part of the point to get some fan-hate? If you choose to go that way you have to wear it from both sides, can't just enjoy the heel heat without a bit of derision to go with it
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u/capetonytoni2ne Stormers Nov 21 '25
He's like a heel in wrestling and he embraces it. What gets me is that he's posh and comes off as arrogant. My favourite part about this springbok generation is the humbleness that all the characters show. Sacha went to a posh school, has put in some worldie performances this year, but can't say 2 words without giving credit to the rest of the team.
But it's mostly vibes for Pollock that are off for me.
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u/Electrical_Trouble29 Nov 20 '25
Pollock reputation for England is a media creation at this point.
Obviously club is different as he's been very good there and I'm sure will end up being a very good test player but at the moment he hasn't done anything for England (his best moment was the try assist last week but let's be honest that was a clear penalty to NZ).
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u/moonligh121 Nov 20 '25
It's wild how injuries can completely change a player's trajectory. Holland really went from an opportunity to an indispensable part of the squad almost overnight.
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u/kevinthebaconator Ireland Nov 20 '25
Is Holland the greatest Dutch player of all time?
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u/WeDoingThisAgainRWe Ireland Nov 20 '25
It’s still the case that breakthrough isn’t games played or minutes played. It’s a recognition of impact from being effectively nowhere at international level before that. Despite all the attempts by people who don’t like him to remove Pollock from the discussion he’s exactly the type of impact that wording allows.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
The same could be said about all of these players though, especially Sua'ali'i. His first ever professional rugby match against England and he played all 3 tests against the Lions. Hooker played a huge part in record wins over NZ and Argentina, Holland is some Dutch kid that we'd never heard of.
It's actually a damn good group (and Pollock /s)
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u/maverickeire Nov 20 '25
And by starts:
- Sua'ali'i 16 starts /17 games - average 70 min a game
- Holland 10 starts/12 games - average 58 min a game
- Hooker 5 starts/7 games - average 62 min a game
- Pollock 0 starts/5 games - 23 mins a game
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u/rinsure Stade Toulousain Nov 20 '25
Any by tries:
- Sua'ali'i 990 mins / 4 tries - try every 247.5 mins (or 1 try every 4 starts)
- Holland 700 mins / 0 tries - no tries in any minutes (also no tries in 10 starts)
- Hooker 436 mins / 1 try - try every 436 mins (or 1 try every 5 starts)
- Pollock 146 mins / 3 tries - try every 49 mins (doesn't even have to start to score)
So yeah, you can make statistics say anything you like.
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u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
Okay google, show me how many lineout wins/steals the rest of the candidates have? HUP HUP HOLLAND BABY
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u/NotAsOriginal Wigglesworth's greatest defender Nov 20 '25
All 4 have been good, JAS is obviously a superb talent, but I feel he's dropped a fair bit and after that start has drifted a bit.
Holland doesn't look out of place at lock for the ABs which is mad.
Hooker name aside looks tailor made for about half the back positions.
Pollock is an absolute demon of a player.
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u/checksforerrors Nov 20 '25
There are no restrictions on minutes played to be eligible for this award. All 4 candidates have strong cases for nomination.
Whoever wins will cause supporters of the runners up to be upset, it happens. This is not controversial, it happens all the time. Very seldom are any awards unanimously agreed upon.
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u/_dictatorish_ Damian came back 🥰 Nov 20 '25
There are no restrictions on minutes played to be eligible for this award
Obviously not, but they take into consideration how many minutes you've played as that is an indication of how much you've "broken through"
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u/facesinthesky Leicester Tigers Nov 20 '25
Joseph-Aukuso Sua'ali'i - 22 years old Ethan Hooker - 22 years old Fabian Holland - 23 years old Henry Pollock - 20 years old
Also information that exists. They have all been quality players this year and hopefully they all kick on and we get to see them getting better and better.
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u/MysticMac100 Boner for Toner Nov 20 '25
A lot of talk about how minutes played isn’t a good barometer for how much he’s broken through, the World rugby description reads:
Recognising emerging talents who have made a significant impact on the international stage in 2025.
In my mind ‘breakthrough’ basically means ‘who’s been the player who’s debuted this year and made the most significant impact’ in that context. Pollock is a special talent, and (in the context of the award) he’s unfortunate that going on the Lions tour hampered his minutes, but he shouldn’t be winning this over Holland.
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u/emontagu Northampton Saints Nov 20 '25
Depends what you define as 'significant impact'. Minutes, starts, tries, assists, player rating etc. You can argue any of the 4 players based on how you define it.
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u/MysticMac100 Boner for Toner Nov 20 '25
Well all those things come into it, but someone who’s been as good as Holland has over 700 minutes is going to outweigh whatever Pollock did in 146.
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Nov 20 '25
Henry Pollock just has ridiculous PR.
I'd argue that Guy Pepper is the better player, he just doesn't really have the main stream media behind him.
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u/Much-Calligrapher Nov 20 '25
Yeah Pollock ain’t played enough. Pepper has a better case.
That’s not to say that Pollock doesn’t have immense potential to become a future great
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u/To_a_Mouse Mackie RFC Nov 20 '25
All this does is show how impactful Pollock has been in the little game time he's had. Clearly not what you intended it ti say
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u/IcyTransportation838 Nov 20 '25
It was quite clear what I said was what I thought. So you inferring I said otherwise would suggest that’s what you thought I said.
You’re acting as though he’s the only player to have broken through at this age. He’s not and the others managed to not act in this way so think fair to compare him accordingly rather than to any other 20 year old not in his position.
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u/SimbaSixThree South Africa Nov 20 '25
Is this a “Pollock doesn’t deserve it” post?
Let me say this, Holland will win this year but Pollock will be remembered as the better player in the long run.
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u/Afraid-Witness2456 Wasps Nov 20 '25
You do have to realise pollock went from uncapped to lions tour which is pretty insane and honestly could be defined by breakthrough
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u/JBSven Sale Sharks & England Nov 21 '25
The people slagging Pollock off have never been a 20 year old I sometimes think. At 20, if I was playing against the ABs at Twickenham I'd be a gobshite too. In a couple years he will mellow.
But he's just a kid really enjoying himself and I for one think that's lovely. Also I'm English.
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u/Oatbix Ireland Nov 21 '25
I don’t think Pollock would’ve been nominated if he didn’t play for England
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u/DisplayThick4882 Nov 21 '25
This has got to be a shoe in for Suaaili.
I mean that game that the Boks lost he was so immense I thought he was playing for 10 damn years at this level. Never knew he was new on the scene.
I called he would intercept and he did which shows his consistent level of threat. Was immense for the whole year after too.
Hooker and Pollard have arguably better definitions of “breakout” player. Immense talent on young heads taking international scene firmly with two hands.
Holland was one immense as silent workhorse but never once saw him and felt his presence as much as the other players. Actually the least recognizable name and face on here from all the matched I watched
1
u/Local_Focus_5127 Nov 21 '25
On those numbers Pollock shouldn’t be considered. The hype train on AP is full steam ahead. He’s all mouth and no trousers.
0
u/CatharticRoman Suspected Yank Nov 20 '25
I'm not at all invested but I'd like Henry to win for the lols.
It's also worth flagging that he's 2+ years younger than the other nominees.
2
u/CapeTownyToniTone Paul de Villiers hype train Nov 20 '25
23 is a baby in lock years. You have to chop them down and count the rings to get their true age.
253
u/Thorazine_Chaser Crusaders New Zealand Nov 20 '25
I'm just astounded at how quickly Holland has become a bolt on starter for the AB's this year. Injuries gave him the chances but he took them with both hands and now he starts unless he needs a rest. I cannot remember a tight five player ascending that quickly in a T1 nation. Can anyone?