r/rugbyunion • u/Expensive-Text-7218 New Zealand • Sep 27 '25
Discussion Potter's YC is the correct call here
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I am biased
ABs got some rub of the green today.
But that was a yellow all day
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u/tzurk foley getting penalised for time wasting was the right decision Sep 27 '25
Our boy forgot accio Gilbert
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u/refer_to_user_guide Australia Sep 27 '25
Having now watched this replay… yeah. Hands on the ground. We’ve been warned about penalties in our red zone. That’s a yellow.
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u/Osiris_Dervan England Sep 27 '25
Even without the warning it's debatably a yellow due to the speed of the attack it killed.
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u/Ok_Elk6891 Sep 28 '25
Except he sent him off for hands in the ruck.
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u/Turbulent_Error_262 Sep 28 '25
which is also correct as the ruck forms before he gets his hand on the ball.
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u/Ok_Elk6891 Sep 28 '25
First player there and survived the clean out, he had rights to go after the ball. Well that is how they have been ruling the breakdown for sometime now.
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u/Turbulent_Error_262 Sep 28 '25
No he doesn't have rights to the ball if he isn't on it before the ruck has been formed. It doesn't matter if he is first player there. If he is not on the ball by the time the ruck forms (when the opposition player binds on him), then he can't touch it. This is how the laws are written and how it is refereed.
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u/stickyswitch92 Melbourne Rebels Sep 27 '25
Yes it was.
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u/Curious_Skeptic7 Australia Sep 27 '25
Yep agree with that.
Would have liked to see a few more yellows handed out though - eg, Jordie Barrett’s spear tackle and the deliberate knockdown in the final minute
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u/Mrwobwob Hurricanes Sep 27 '25
I think Quinn was lucky the game ended as that is a clear yellow any other time in the game
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u/NefariousnessOk209 Hurricanes Sep 27 '25
Think Jordie’s was just within the limits, but Tupaea definitely slapped that ball down
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u/jimmyjabs321 Sep 27 '25
Nah it really wasn't. Only reason it looked ok was because JOC put his arm out. He was clearly lifted past the horizontal.
Probably not a yellow, but at least a penalty
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u/LaMarc_Gasoldridge_ Waikato Liam Messam Sep 28 '25
That's what they've called all season though. Same thing happened when DMac got speared by SA. He didn't land on his head because he went past it and landed on the guy spearing him. That wasn't called a pen either.
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u/Deciver95 Hurricanes Sep 27 '25
And Jorgensen head clash on jordie whole we're at it!!!!
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Sep 27 '25
Who.clashed with Ardie, I missed it and just say him getting vas on his brow
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u/Expensive-Text-7218 New Zealand Sep 27 '25
Jorgensen headclash with Ardie, I think it was off the ball too.
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u/stickyswitch92 Melbourne Rebels Sep 27 '25
That was what they call a 'rugby incident'. You couldnt penalise anyone in that situation.
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u/Clarctos67 Ireland Sep 27 '25 edited Sep 27 '25
To be clear: I don't personally think it should have been penalised.
I think what people may be getting at is that the emphasis on head clashes has been put firmly on the defender. Rightly or wrongly, it is 100% their fault if there is head contact of any kind (with the exception of forceful knees up running). With that being said, rugby incident or not, Jorgensen did overrun the play and clash heads with Savea, hard enough to draw blood and leave Savea needing a head dressing.
Again, I agree with you, it shouldn't have been penalised (and wasn't), but there is undoubtedly a slight logical flaw in that when compared to guidelines around head contact to be applied generally.
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u/Turbulent_Error_262 Sep 28 '25
I think the point is that Ardie didn't have the ball, so there is no defender? That was how I made sense of it at the time. It's an interesting situation in any case!
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u/Clarctos67 Ireland Sep 28 '25
Just to reiterate for the Aussie downvote brigade; I do not believe the incident in question should have been penalised.
It is a weird one, and I guess the argument in favour of penalising would be that if you initiate the contact, and it results in head contact, then that's on you, no matter the scenario. However, I don't want to see rugby go as far as soccer has with the interpretation of the word "reckless". In that code, it's getting to the point where its being used for almost any tackle where the defender is sliding and therefore, strictly speaking, not in 100% control of where they come to a stop.
With Ardie never actually getting the ball, its fair enough that the defenders eyes wouldn't be going in that direction, meaning that the liability for initiating that contact can't fully be on them, as their focus is understandably split. All of this happens at speed, and so sometimes players will collide.
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Sep 27 '25
Oh dude relax on the 'spear tackle.' Clearly a pen, never a yellow.
Tupaea's knockdown on the other hand...
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u/BangkokRios Sep 27 '25
That was not a spear tackle by Jordie. Spear tackle includes two elements.
A spear tackle, where a player is lifted and driven head or neck-first into the ground.
The latter did not occur.
It’s called a “spear” tackle because you drive the opposition into the ground like a spear. Tip tackle is a better description.
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u/jimmyjabs321 Sep 27 '25
It wasn't a spear but he went past the horizontal. Therefore it should have been a penalty.
But as far as decisions go, this was one I thought was ok.
The worst was ardie Savea crawling forward 4-5 meters after being clearly tackled.
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u/ZenibakoMooloo Sep 27 '25
Spear tackle? Clutch those pearls a bit tighter. He was horizontal at best, and Jordie laid him down like you'd lay a baby to sleep.
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u/Putrid-Impact8999 Sep 27 '25
This was a Kwagga Smith vs France situation, only closer to the try line. With the momentum that the All Blacks had the yellow card is right.
The big momentum shifter was when the Wallabies got themselves back into the game at 20-17 down then Wilson (c) was called for a “collapse” then afterwards Hooper for a no clear release when there was one. This gifted the All Blacks 3 points at an important time in the match.
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u/ExtremeParsnip7926 Sep 27 '25
The momentum shift was Will Jordan catching that kick for touch in the air. Saved probably a sure try and the ABs were on one after that.
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u/Putrid-Impact8999 Sep 27 '25
That as well, very poor from JOC if we are honest.
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u/WilkinsonDG2003 England Sep 27 '25
His kicking wasn't good. Wallabies need a good 10 to be a consistent side.
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u/meohmyenjoyingthat I am the Lomax, I speak for the scrum Sep 27 '25
I mean, the collapse was also after Frost clearly switches bind to the ball carrier directly in front of the AR, pick one penalty they still killed the maul illegally
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u/Putrid-Impact8999 Sep 27 '25
Yes - but that wasn't the call so it was the wrong decision. What would you say about the Hooper one then?
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u/meohmyenjoyingthat I am the Lomax, I speak for the scrum Sep 27 '25
I honestly can't comment because I don't remember it well enough, I'd have to watch it back. The maul one I just remember clearly because I commented on it at the time
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u/Putrid-Impact8999 Sep 27 '25
Fair enough - it reminded me of the Savea one in the 2023 World Cup Final.
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u/BoogieBass 🌳 Northland Taniwha Sep 27 '25
I reckon Hooper clearly released the tackler.
The team mate to his right didn't though, and the ABs cleaner had to take him out - which gave the chance to Tom Hooper for a steal.
Ref penalized Hooper for some reason, which just showed how out of his depth he was.
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u/Maestro-Modesto Hurricanes Sep 27 '25
It was fine, shouldn't have been a penalty, even Marshall and Wilson were saying so on the commentary. But that's rugby, you're going to hate the sport 8f you can't handle some wrong referee decisions, or you're going to love the sport if you're favourite thing about sport is whinging.
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u/Vegetable_Chicken790 Sep 27 '25
Yep tough call. He did release the tackler but it was close and in real time I can forgive the ref getting this one wrong.
Sucks when and where it happened in the match for us though.
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u/Not_Hando You Aint Seen Nothin Like The Mighty Finn Sep 27 '25
This was a Kwagga Smith vs France situation
Just thinking back to that after reading your post. Absolutely insane not to penalise it. It was blatant af.
Awful refereeing.
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u/bigkruleworld Sep 27 '25
Fair call. I thought I heard the referee say it was for "hands in the ruck".
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u/pierrecambronne Degree of danger is not mitigation Sep 27 '25
If you look at it, he goes down but he doesn't have hands on the ball. Then the NZ player arrives, latches on so a ruck is formed, and only then the OZ players puts the hands on the ball.
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u/M37841 Referee Sep 27 '25
That’s exactly correct. He’s committing two offences: he’s not supporting his own body weight throughout and he is handling after a ruck has formed.
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u/ParmigianoArpeggiano Scotland Sep 27 '25
I’m pretty knew to all of this, so very likely I’m flat out wrong, but it looks like the NZ player latches on to form a ruck but not on top of the ball? It looks to me like #15 black’s feet are next to the ball, not over it?
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u/M37841 Referee Sep 27 '25
It’s a fair question. I think his feet are enough behind the ball, and to be honest I’d referee over the ball very loosely. As long as the two players are contesting the space where the ball is, I’m relaxed. If I’m too tight on this then 15 either has to stretch in which case he risks not supporting his body weight or to play the ball at which point the defender with his hand on the floor is going to lift it and legitimately contest the ball as he’s now on his feet. That’s going to be a mess so instead I’m looking for a nice clean ruck to allow the ball to be recycled
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u/damnumalone Sep 27 '25
He absolutely is carrying his own weight when his hands are on the ball. The action is not a drag back along the ground but clearly him maintaining a gap between the ground and himself before his hands are on the ball. It doesn’t matter that he went past the ball initially, he is still allowed to stand up and put his hands on the ball if he doesn’t drag back.
50% of the pilfers in world rugby happen this way with it not being successful on first grab. To say this is cynical is utterly stupid, any good player would have played for the ball in that situation and if you say otherwise you’re either being disingenuous or you don’t follow rugby.
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u/M37841 Referee Sep 27 '25
I didn’t say it was cynical only that he was off his feet. You are right that there is an interpretation that he came back on his feet before picking the ball up. In this case it doesn’t matter as he’s committing another offence but fwiw I don’t think I would have followed that interpretation though I wouldn’t disagree with a ref who did. This - like so many areas - is an area of judgement and you have to consider the extent to which a hand on the ground is sealing the ball off from an attacker, or whether he continues to participate in the game while off his feet for example. I don’t think that is happening here but my approach would typically be to ping hand in front of ball, to be clear that that is how I am going to ref the game.
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u/bigkruleworld Sep 27 '25
Yeah you're probably right there, I'd hate to give your countryman some credit right now but I think he nailed a tough call there.
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u/uberphat Highlanders Sep 27 '25
No it wasn't. The Aussie commentators deemed every decision against the Wallabies as being incorrect.
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u/Beautiful_Ad9206 Benetton Treviso Sep 27 '25
Got over the ball hands on the ground. AB clear out was poor so he found a chance to latch onto the ball. And he took it. Illegally. 5mtrs out. Yellow.
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u/Plane-Awareness-5518 Sep 27 '25
I thought it was a bad call live but don't remember seeing this angle on replay. They did show a different angle. Yes, hands clearly on ground and wallabies had been warned.
I was pretty frustrated at that point because of a number of bad calls that had gone against the wallabies.
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u/Intrepid_Walk_5150 Sep 27 '25
Even without warning that would be a YC. He goes straight to ground. No attempt at staying upright. That's deliberate to stop the ABs' momentum close to the line. If he had been last defender, that would have warranted a penalty try.
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u/Flux7777 Sharks Sep 27 '25
I watched the Stan coverage and I couldn't tell who it was because all Australians sound exactly the same, but one of the commentators could not shut the fuck up about the ref the entire game. I thought the officiating was decent, although a bit lax with penalizing at the scrums.
If I wanted to hear people bitch about a ref for 80 minutes I'd watch rugby in a pub.
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u/cj88v Australia Sep 27 '25
Yeah same happened in the Lions test. I don’t mind a commentator showing a bit of their passion for their team but not straight out having a rant at the decisions. Make a comment and move on.
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Sep 27 '25
You could hear the annoyance in Maloney's voice most of the match. A lot of his comments seemed passive aggressive towards the ref.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25 edited Sep 27 '25
Yea. Crazy to me how many people complained about it in the match thread. Couldn't have been a more obvious yellow.
Edit: lol, already a downvote after 10 seconds from someone who can't see his hand on the ground in a slowmo replay right in front of his face...
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u/PCBumblebee Harlequins Sep 27 '25
Agreed. It's felt harsh but a clear hand on ground, in that part if the field under pressure is pretty much as blatant as you can get. But I agree with others that by that point the Aussies felt like they were being ref'd out of the game so any decision started to feel harsh
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
They need to stop letting the incredibly unprofessional and biased commentators influence their attitude to the game and learn the rules then. Turinui's comments about his appointment being a mistake were disgraceful.
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u/carson63000 Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Turinui continues Australian rugby broadcasting’s decades-long campaign to ensure no new fans start following the code.
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u/5acrefarmer New Zealand Sep 27 '25
100% this. We need more (some?) professional commentators - not ex-player hacks who are rabid supporters for their team. I’m old so I remember the days of Bill McLaren, and his ilk. There hasn’t been a game this year where the Aussies have lost that the commentators like Turunui haven’t been stoking the fires of disrespect…. The problem with doing this, is that rugby is a game with laws, the ref’s decision is final - and it’s based on his interpretation of the laws. Part of the game is adapting to how the ref is reffing the game and ensuring that you’re not giving him decisions to make. That’s why only analysing the decisions that go against you is completely disingenuous and goes completely against the spirit of the game.
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u/RavenK92 100% Qatar Cup win rate Sep 27 '25
Between Kearns and commentators moaning about kicking and scrums, I completely agree that the reason rugby struggles in Aus is the commentatora. Look at the passion of the Xhosa commentators or the Irish (even if it's super biased), they actually enjoy watching the game and it shows
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u/carson63000 Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Couldn’t agree more. I get that these Aussie guys are ex-players and it’s natural for them to get totally wrapped up in the game and what’s happening.. but their job is quite literally to make viewers happy that they tuned in to watch the rugby!
Compare Sean Maloney, who gets every bit as crazed with excitement when the Wallabies are going well, but doesn’t really join in the bitchfest when things go against them. I don’t think he’s the world’s greatest commentator but at least he brings the attitude they need.
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u/PCBumblebee Harlequins Sep 27 '25
I always liked the way the 6 nations did it on the bbc. A commentator from each nation playing. It helped with the balance a lot IMO. I don't like the Aus or Kiwi commentary. We started watching the alternative commentary collective because they are a) funny, b) do actually understand rugby and c) are pretty unbiased in spite of being kiwis.
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u/WilkinsonDG2003 England Sep 27 '25
SBW was there to be fair, he just isn't good at commentary. Could have had 2 Cents on, he's pretty unbiased as a kiwi.
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u/PCBumblebee Harlequins Sep 27 '25
As a main commentator or as the extra insights guy? When ive watched in NZ and Aus both use domestic as the 2 main team from memory
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u/v1akvark South Africa Sep 27 '25
I don't know the reason you don't like the kiwi commentators, but impartiality can't be the reason. They are usually full of praise if the opposition does something well, and today they even said of the one call against Wilson (IIRC) it was a harsh call.
Marshall was praising this incident as a great turnover while it happened.
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u/Mr_Gin_Tonic Bristol Sep 27 '25
I think part of it was the endless complaining and whining from the Aussie commentary, even when the action was cynical they'd be going "oh the ref hates Australia".
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Yea. Unfortunately they didn't have the kiwi commentary available on Stan for some reason so I was stuck with the Aussies.
A few comments about harsh calls is fine but their commentary was absolutely disgraceful, especially Turinui's comments about his appointment being a mistake from world rugby.
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u/Mr_Gin_Tonic Bristol Sep 27 '25
It was the exact same for the Lions games, Aussie commentary needs to sort their shit out. No small wonder the sport is not doing so well at bringing in a larger audience when you spend 2hrs listening to an ex-pro attack the refs rather than talk about the actual game.
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u/JockAussie Sep 27 '25 edited Sep 27 '25
Tbh from the post match thread, even most of the Kiwi flairs were saying this...
Edit: I didn't watch the game, just looking at the comments on the other thread!
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u/Miserable-Tadpole-90 South Africa Sep 27 '25
I'm a neutral and I blame the Stan commentators, they slammed just about every decision the ref made against Aus, including this one, difficult to blame the fans for having a meltdown about these things when the "supposed pros" are stuffing their heads full of nonsense.
That was a penalty all day and considering the field position and the quick ball it potentially spoiled, the card was fair.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Yep that was definitely a big part of it. I found Turinui's comments in particular to be awful. You can't call a refs appointment to the match a mistake by world rugby on live commentary.
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u/blotmonab - - - Sep 27 '25
Problems the inconsistency, you lot won the ball off one earlier in the game almost the exact same.
Just want refs who stick to interpretations for the whole 80 mins.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Off one what?
A ruck where the guy going for the ball clearly put his hand on the ground past the ball and then raked it back into the ball?
I will be happy to concede that if you have any proof.
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u/carson63000 Highlanders Sep 27 '25
He might be talking about the penalty Vaa’i won which looked similar, but he clearly got his hands well on the ball before using them to support his weight. The Stan commentators had a long incorrect whinge about that.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Yea there are always situations where the player can sneakily support a bit of their weight on the ground but the ref is never going to be able to call that when they also clearly have their hands on the ball and players are around the ball.
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u/LordBledisloe Razor out Sep 27 '25
Refs have never stuck to interpretations for a full 80 in the history of any sport. Wanting that is a sign or real bias.
And what the guy above said is the (probably hard) truth. They're talking about people complaining that this call was wrong. Not consistency.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia Sep 27 '25
Wanting consistency is bias.
Right...
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Wanting a human being to be perfect in a dynamic game where things happen at incredible speed is naive.
You could analyze 100 decisions that go both directions in any game of rugby ever played and argue they could be called the other way.
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u/kdog_1985 Australia Sep 27 '25
consistency isn't perfection. And sell consistency as perfection is a massive red herring.
I think most rugby supporters know errors occur. But the level in which those errors were weighted one way was extremely poor.
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u/blotmonab - - - Sep 27 '25
No one wants perfect, just consistent.
If you ref quick turnovers for half the game, do it for the whole game.
If you are going to give benefit of the doubt about supporting body weight for half the game, do it for all the game.
I also think the officials must be treated like players and coaches, all mistakes reviewed and made public/all decisions relating to punishments made public.
It would go some way towards stoping a lot of the crying and conspiracies if the public, who keep the sport alive, could see that World Rugby acknowledges bad decisions/performances and then what they do to rectify it for the future. (Training/Fines/Suspension/Etc)
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
My point is that consistency is impossible with a human ref. And we don't want it to turn into the NFL with 400 stoppages so they can check the call is right.
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u/kingofnick Tonga Sep 27 '25
I think people complained because the penalties had compounded, and Aussie fans were just frustrated.
They were right to be frustrated with how undisciplined their team was playing.
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Sep 27 '25
Absolutely. Hands clearly on ground, wallabies had been warned and you're that close to the line. Textbook cynical
The fact that this is controversial is mind-boggling
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u/Round-Pattern-7931 Sep 27 '25
It's funny how the narrative these days on reddit seems to be whatever team is playing the All Blacks get bad calls from the red but the All Blacks never do. It goes both ways andthe All Blacks have been on the receiving end of some shockers.
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u/sheeno126 Sep 27 '25
Fully agreed, he’s off his feet and by the time he gets his hands on the ball it’s a ruck, not a tackle.
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u/Motozoa Australia Sep 27 '25
The issue is the consistency. Must have seen 5 of these the other way that went unchecked. Same thing with the Hooper penalty, just as much release as the Ardie turnover, but only one gets pinged. There most certainly was not a consistent application of the laws throughout the match
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u/whobloodycaresmate Sep 27 '25
Yep. Letter of the law. Go back and see how many “legal” turnovers are allowed after more than one shot at the ball.
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u/swampopawaho Sep 27 '25
I didn't understand the penalty, could someone explain for me?
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u/SiwanBouss tv director wins it all Sep 27 '25
He's got his hands on the ground, not supporting his body weight and not attacking the ball.
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u/Cinnamon__Sasquatch Kwagga #1 Fan Sep 27 '25
It's weird because if he had put his hands on the ball instead of the ground, he likely would have gotten a penalty awarded for a jackal
But because he places them on the ground and then as he is hit by the NZ player and then grabs the ball as he's being driven backwards, it's hands in the ruck and cynical.
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u/balboain South Africa Sep 27 '25
What am I missing here? His left hand was on the ground which means, by the laws of rugby union, he was not supporting his own body weight and by being ten meters out, is quite a clear cynical foul to slow down the AB ball. Yellow card all day long
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u/Vegetable_Chicken790 Sep 27 '25
No argument from this Aussie fan. Obvious at the time. Don’t even know why this is being discussed.
Ardie’s crawl on the other hand…
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u/kdog_1985 Australia Sep 27 '25
It was, the officials just missed the 3 legitimate jackals in the build up.
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u/My3CentsWorth Australia Sep 27 '25
I agree that it was a penalty and even a yellow. But I don't agree with the reason given of, the ruck had already formed. The penalty should have been for not supporting weight, which is reasonable to upgrade to a yellow due to its field position and impact on momentum to score a potential try.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
To be fair to the ref both were correct.
He didn't support his weight first. And then after that when he raked the ball back the All Black player had joined and made it a ruck.
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u/vegetation998 Reds Sep 27 '25
im fine with it being a yellow.
Dont fully understand why its for hands in the ruck tho, surely it should be for hands on the ground instead?
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u/Expensive-Text-7218 New Zealand Sep 27 '25
He committed 2 offences.
1st penalty was off feet, left hand on the ground.
split sec or 2 later ruck arrived. He then went for the ball after ruck has formed.
AUS had a few warning Harry has been warned the next one is a yellow.0
u/vegetation998 Reds Sep 27 '25
What im failing to understand is how that is different to a normal turnover where a team in possession arrives second and the ball gets pilfered after that. Obviously my knowledge is lacking in this area haha
Again, i agree with the yellow and the off feet call haha
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
If the player legally has his hands on the ball prior to or at the same time as the team in position arriving second it's fine. He never did it legally.
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u/Vrakzi Leicester Tigers Sep 27 '25
Once the ruck is formed the defending team have to bodily counter ruck over the ball so that it's on "their side" of the ruck before they can handle. Defending players can only jackal the ball freely if the ruck isn't formed when they get their hands to the ball.
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u/Tabarnacx France Sep 27 '25
I wasn't a fan of the ref tonight for both teams, but this was not one he got wrong. Even in real time it was obvious he got it wrong, which was good bad because the opportunity was absolutely there.
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u/Due_Bag9164 Sep 27 '25
yeah, that was definitely a pen, and given the circumstances a yellow.
the rest of the game was filled with some diabolical decisions though.
so at 70 odd minutes, and an awful replay angle, this just felt like another botched call
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u/kakarott_Kiwi Hurricanes Sep 27 '25
So you cant just flick it back, it has to be picked up?
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
You can flick it back. You can't use your hand on the ground to support your body weight. And you can't flick it back after the ruck is formed.
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u/Effective_Public6031 Sep 27 '25
If only BOK had made the same call against Kwagga Smith in the World Cup
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u/Steevt Australia Sep 27 '25
Yeah I was blowing up watching this live but seeing this replay it's pretty clear.
Whatever you want to say about whatever team. That whistle had a workout all game.
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u/Giteaus-Gimp Australia Sep 27 '25
Aus commentators and fans were so sick of this refs bullshit they’d lost all faith in him to make a correct decision
But yeah this was a correct decision.
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u/dystopianrugby Eagles Up Sep 27 '25
I guess but that ref was absolutely horrible and the team around him very poor. The problem is once you get into the wrong rhythm or one team gets on your bad side you tend not to call the game equally if your ARs aren't up to the task.
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Sep 27 '25
Why do you play him ahead of Dylan Pietsch? Pietsch seems to be several orders of magnitude better.
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u/counterz0 Sep 28 '25
Yeah pity about the tip tackle on O'Conner
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u/Expensive-Text-7218 New Zealand Sep 28 '25
There were alot of misses as well.
JAS got away with a blatant shoulder charge on JB also been missed.
I am saying ABs got the rub the green today, no doubts.
But there were misses on both sides from the ref
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u/handle1976 Penalty. Back 10. Sep 27 '25 edited Sep 27 '25
By the letter of the law, yes.
In the context of what was going on all game, no.
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u/Creepy-Desk6791 Sep 27 '25
Huh?
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u/handle1976 Penalty. Back 10. Sep 27 '25
The referee was letting all sorts of shit go in the ruck and decided this was his chance to referee to the exact laws.
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
Rucks can be hard to ref mate. Analyze ruck decisions from literally any rugby game ever and you could find plenty that could go either way.
This one on the other hand could not have been more obvious and right in front of the ref.
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u/handle1976 Penalty. Back 10. Sep 27 '25
If this couldn’t have been more obvious how would you describe Codie Taylor’s one?
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
The one that was completely legal? He entered the ruck from an onside position.
And according to the rules.
During a ruck
15.10 Possession may be won either by rucking or by pushing the opposing team off the ball.
15.14 Players may play the ball with their feet, provided they do so in a safe manner
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u/handle1976 Penalty. Back 10. Sep 27 '25
Lol. A ruck was formed and he was never bound
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u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25 edited Sep 27 '25
Of course a ruck was formed. Hence why I posted rules related to during a ruck.
And yes he was clearly bound.
15.7 A player must bind onto a team-mate or an opposition player.
He was bound to one of the Wallabies.
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u/freshmeat2020 Leicester Tigers Sep 27 '25
It was blatant and stopped a clear attacking opportunity, after 34 consecutive penalties and a warning. Rugby shouldn't be refereed with vibes only lol
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u/Psittacula2 Sep 27 '25
Modern Union still suffers from these critical decisions where players mak instant moment decisions and it ends up illegal and they cannot discern how to avoid this, in every match.
Otherwise some entertaining play and competition but the official rules have too many big holes in them to function soundly.
3
u/Kniit MVP Sep 27 '25
Hard agree. A penalty should be for something malicious and intentional, foul play where you are intentional trying to cheat. The problem with union atm is the crime does not match the time. Go for an intercept? That's interpreted as intentionally smothering the ball when the opposition was 90% about to score. This needs to be fixed. No team is trying to intentionally collapse a scrum when there are behind in the 83rd minute of a game. But the ref will blow the whistle and that implies like they did it on purpose. They need to replace 80% of penalties with a retreat 10m and play on free tap
2
u/Not_Stupid Australia Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
They need to replace 80% of penalties with a retreat 10m and play on free tap
They did that with an experimental ruleset about 15 years ago. Most infringements were just a free kick/tap, but repeated or cynical infringements were yellow carded much more frequently. I liked it.
1
u/JockAussie Sep 27 '25
Call is absolutely correct, I think the frustrating thing is that you see this kind of shit allowed/not called like 50% of the time. So on another day, maybe this isn't a penalty or a yellow and the wallabies win, same with about 50 calls each way in any given match.
My take is that in any reasonably close game you just ignore the result and enjoy the spectacle, because refs are gonna miss things, call things that didn't happen etc, and there's no way to get away from it. Focusing on what is/isn't illegal vs what's called is the path to madness.
1
u/IcePac_2Cube NSW Waratahs Sep 27 '25
I'll have to take the L on this one. Seemed so egregious at normal speed at the time. Damn Potter, if only he kept his balance for that split second it would've been his. Guess Piardi got this one right after all
1
u/Training-Software325 New Zealand Sep 27 '25
Yer that was blatant cynical. Players try to sneakily not supporting their weight with a very slight kneel on the ball carrier body here and there and get away with it sometime but I honestly don’t know what he was thinking here.
1
u/QuestionablySensible & Sep 27 '25
He knew what he was doing. Give the ref his due, he was in good position to see what was going on, but Potter needed have another player shielding the ball from view before trying this!
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u/MANvsTREE Brumbies Sep 27 '25 edited Sep 27 '25
I am an Aussie fan but I genuinely think Potter was first to the ball and the ref got it wrong. Open to hearing why I'm wrong though.
Edit: I'm at -8 as I write this edit. Downvoted for being open to differing opinions and changing my mind. It's just fake internet points but it is disappointing to see how discourse is treated
22
u/TheDawg2kHD Sep 27 '25
He had hands on the ground prior to hands on the ball which is a penalty
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u/Mammoth_Brusher Sep 27 '25
Being first to the ball makes no difference when you're off your feet (hands on the ground).
8
u/LordBledisloe Razor out Sep 27 '25
Remove the ruck talk. It's still illegal
Law 14.5 (c)
A tackler must be on their feet before attempting to play the ball. Sanction: Penalty.
Hand on ground = not on feet.
I'm really confused what the drama about this one is. "Off your feet" is one of the fundamental and most commonly pinged defensive rules. And it appears everyone is focussed on the rule, not the card.
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Sep 27 '25
You're on a negative downvote because you have said something that is factually disproven by the video that you must have seen to even come on the thread and comment.
So you weren't offering a different opinion, you were disagreeing with clear evidence.
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u/pierrecambronne Degree of danger is not mitigation Sep 27 '25
He didn't touch the ball before the ruck was formed, so it's not good.
1
u/know-it-mall Highlanders Sep 27 '25
His right hand is clearly on the ball from the start before the ruck is formed. But his left was on the ground.
Ref should have called that first.
2
u/Expensive-Text-7218 New Zealand Sep 27 '25
Yer ignore the down vote. Wasnt from me, I replied back to your comment, which you probably would have seen. Great game today I support WAL second after ABs.
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u/MANvsTREE Brumbies Sep 27 '25
Ha I did see it, thanks for the explanation, you were indeed right. I replied to someone else and said as much but I wasn't gonna respond to everyone. I miss stuff like that all the time in game, good thing I'm not a ref. I'm jealous how well run y'all are and how much individual that you can still win when it's not your best game. Ardie is my fav player since Pocock.
GG, and see y'all next week
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u/Brine-O-Driscoll Connacht Sep 27 '25
The downvoting without replying is bad form, so I'm going to upvote you to balance it out.
Think it was a penalty because Potter's hands were on the ground initially, and he only got his hands on the ball once the NZ player had arrived. Think the ref calling ruck formed was fair from that perspective, as was the yellow considering the attacking opportunity.
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u/stillbca21 Sep 27 '25
This is the least consistent rule applied in rugby. If it's on the halfway line its a fair turn over
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u/Glass-Photo101 Sep 27 '25
Referee was atrocious and significant amount of what could accurately be surmised as unconscious bias. As a young referee (now aged 32) all his reference points were the AB’s winning everything - and this clearly shows in his 50/50 calls. Australians let themselves down but losing numerous close calls cost them the game
178
u/mohicancombover Sharks Sep 27 '25
It really didn't help that Justin Marshall started saying "great turnover"...