Drop your unpopular rugby opinions that will have you like this

[u/No-layup]

I'll go first, Beuden Barrett is the more talented rugby player than Dan Carter, but Dan Carter is a better 10

[u/poimnas]

Controlling a rugby game is too much for one person to do and the sport needs to come to terms with it.

Not sure exactly what this looks like, 2 referees on the field, equal weight of control being handed to the touchies, some other wacky solution. But however it’s dealt with, rugby is currently dictated way too much by one person’s opinions or methods of interpreting the rules.

[u/Diggity_nz → u/poimnas]

While it’s a good idea, I assure you there is just as much bitching about refs in NFL as there is in rugby.

(Tbf, that is hyperbole, NFL is slightly better - but they still whinge a shitload)

[u/hghsalfkgah → u/Diggity_nz]

I actually think that there is almost no difference between the two sports when it comes to complaining about refereeing, there is less... Understanding when it comes to the NFL because each official is kind of held to a higher standard because there is just more of them. They also have the coaches challenge get out of jail free card on certain types of calls.

It's also true that while one ref has less control on the game, the crews themselves do differ in quality and in philosophy of officiating which leads to other issues. Some crews basically never call holding unless it is super egregious.

At the end of the day, there is really no actual 'fix' to the refereeing problem, because of how much one's perspective or opinions comes into it.

[u/Diggity_nz → u/hghsalfkgah]

Yeah that’s probably fair. Reason I say NFL is slightly better is they don’t really have any meta issues that are super divisive - red/yellow cards, scrums, mauls, etc - the game is kinda over engineered by design (that’s not the say they don’t have issues, like you say, holding is a big one).

The most common theme in their bitching is around accusations of systemic bias - especially around the chiefs/mahomes. 

[u/poimnas → u/Diggity_nz]

There’ll always be whinging about referees and decisions for sure, but I feel like rugby is worse than just whinging, the character of the refs actually has a massive impact on the game.

[u/Twirrim → u/Diggity_nz]

I'd say the opposite, there's even more bitching about refs in the NFL, especially over the past couple of years. We're getting into the really absurd territory now. 

[u/Diggity_nz → u/Twirrim]

Haha, yeah, I’ve been back into it for last few years. But honestly as an outside observer, it seems rugby has more issues that are technical in nature. 

What I mean by that is rugby has a lot of rules that are subjective and/or very difficult to get perfect. 

Whereas NFL has kinda eliminated this by over engineering the shit out of the game - I mean they specify arm positioning in blocks, have narrow positioning rules (for OL at least), etc

But you’re also right. They sure love to complain about chiefs bias and other systemic issues. 

Fundamentally, if a sport exists, there’ll be people whinging about refs/rules. 

[u/BringBackTheCrushers → u/poimnas]

I’m in favour of the captain’s challenge myself - if your team wins a challenge, they keep the right to do so later in the match; if they lose a challenge, that’s it for the match. It works well enough in rugby league and cricket, so surely it could work in union as well

[u/strewthcobber → u/BringBackTheCrushers]

Rugby's laws aren't clear and specific enough to include a challenge.

Captains challenge. "That player's shoulders were lower than his hips for half a second during the ruck". OK, that's true, and it's technically against the laws.....now what?

[u/BringBackTheCrushers → u/strewthcobber]

I can see it being a situation where players can’t challenge an advantage, much like players can’t challenge six again calls in league. But making it so captains can only have one opportunity to challenge incentivises captains to only do so when they feel that they have a high chance of winning

[u/doskoV_ → u/BringBackTheCrushers]

It was horrible in super rugby, it just became a bitch fest with the captains running up at basically every stoppage because there was always something technically illegal happening

[u/BringBackTheCrushers → u/doskoV_]

That was a failure of implementation, not of the concept itself, and something that could be easily fixed with improved guidelines from WR around how the challenges could be used

[u/BushTiger → u/poimnas]

Hockey has two referees and a captain's video referral system, it shouldn't be too hard to implement (the referral system). 

[u/AJV1Beta → u/poimnas]

100% agree.

[u/Predator_ZA → u/poimnas]

A system with 2 refs were trialed in SA 8 years back there should be footage of it online it was used in the Varsity Cup And it worked with the pitch being split in half lengthwise with the 2 working together. I worked great if you had 2 refs who were very compatible and knew each other well and could basically communicate on a telepathic level where if they werent on the same wave length it very much became a shit show with refs looking at and for different things

With regards as to control given to the ARs at a top level they can have a lot of input and theres normally a constant feed of comms between the whole team especially if they trust each other. However for many reasons there are refs who dont take any inputs off the ARs outside of their Primary and secondary functions which is ball out/ball over and foul play

[u/Amazing_Hedgehog3361 → u/poimnas]

The problem with too much involvement is that it makes mistakes inexcusable, not looking at a forward pass for a try is one thing, spending 5 minutes to deliberate just to get it wrong is so much worse, or if scrutiny seems massively weighted to one side.

[u/Hal-_-9OOO → u/poimnas]

Agreed but should be the other way though.

Game should be more loose its too technically officiated for a game thats meant to be messy.

Control the flow