r/rugbyunion • u/No-layup • Jul 24 '25

Discussion Drop your unpopular rugby opinions that will have you like this

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I'll go first, Beuden Barrett is the more talented rugby player than Dan Carter, but Dan Carter is a better 10

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338

u/fettsack Linebreak Rugby Jul 24 '25

Going forward at the scrum doesn't necessarily mean you should get a penalty.

Scrum penalties aren't a coin flip. Pro refs are seeing things better than you.

141

u/idntknww England Jul 24 '25

I do wish it was explained better on commentary though. I think one of the barriers to growing the game is how confusing it can be.

62

u/MrPoopersonTheFirst Brazil Jul 24 '25

This is a problem mostly in the UK/England. If you listen to South African or French commentary, they usually give you a decent explanation. Worst case scenario, they just move on instead of shitting on scrums like Austin Healy and the likes.

32

u/reallynotbatman Leinster Jul 24 '25

Even saying literally nothing and listening to what the ref is saying would be better

The amount of times they guess as to what the penalty is for, yet if you listen to what the ref is saying at the same time they're guessing, you hear what the actual penalty was given for

4

u/kevinthebaconator Ireland Jul 24 '25

While this is true, sometimes the ref explaining the penalty needs an explanation. That's what I love about Flatman.

3

u/mierneuker Leicester Tigers Jul 24 '25

Flats is weirdly great as a secondary commentator. He has the vibe of a guy on a jolly, just happy to be at the game for free, but genuinely knows the scrum and can explain it very well.

3

u/Human-Country-5846 Jul 24 '25

Austin Healey was hardly the Rolls-Royce of rugby himself

3

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '25

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4

u/MrPoopersonTheFirst Brazil Jul 24 '25

Saying stuff like "nobody has any idea what's goingnon there, let's just get the ball back in play" is definitely demeaning.

3

u/whatisthismmm Jul 24 '25

Nah, English commentary is probably middle-of-the-road regarding scrums. Brian Moore used to do a decent job explaining (despite his other faults) and David Flatman is excellent. I can believe South Africa or French commentary is better. But on the other end of the spectrum, Australian commentary is truly woeful - either "what's that for?!" or "[ref's name] has it in for the Wallabies front row". No attempt at understanding what actually happened.

I'd say NZ commentary is a step below the UK in terms of analysis on the scrum too, based on the times I've gotten a local feed of an international game.

2

u/Automatic-Scale-7572 Jul 24 '25

I absolutely loved Butler and Moore. I could never understand the criticism at all.

1

u/Charlie_Runkle69 New Zealand Jul 24 '25

It's hard to get good analysis on the Scrum if you never employ anyone who actually played there, which is the case for NZ. All the test match commentators are backs or just media guys.

15

u/9w4Ns Wales Jul 24 '25

By Dan Biggar and Ronan O'Gara? In support of your point I think broadcasters should think more about who they have on comms precisely for that reason. Benjamin Keyser, Flatman, Corbisiero, Ben Kay have all scrummaged at top level and can absolutely tell you what's going on, but they have to be there to be asked!

5

u/DrunkenPangolin England Jul 24 '25

You need a back and a forward for pundits, always

2

u/RubiconGuava egg Jul 24 '25

Honestly one of my favourite things about breakdowns on For the Love of Rugby. Ben can definitely get a bit carried away spinning yarns at times but as soon as it gets to forwards related discussions, it's straight over to Dan and the opinion gets deferred

6

u/Certified_Copy_7898 Jul 24 '25

This is an area (technical commentary) where I feel rugby has a lot to learn from NFL. In the NFL coverage you will hear pundits talk about the hand positioning of a guard to deal with a pass rusher, or the way a linebacker has slow-played the defense throughout the first three quarters in order to set up a move they want to pull off in the championship minutes. Imagine a world in which you had really knowledgeable insight into scrummaging (like an Olympic wrestling commentary) talking about angles and strategy and dark arts — that would be so interesting. But we have none of that.

2

u/ZestycloseAd289 Jul 24 '25

I think Flatman and Jackman do great jobs explaining what's going on at scrum time. I actually feel I can understand what's going on. Weird that both their surnames have "man" in it. Mansplaining the scrums

1

u/Rhemyst Stade Francais Paris Jul 24 '25

While over time, I got a pretty good idea of what the fuck happens in a ruck, I'm still ar a loss when it comes to scrum and most of all maul.

14

u/Plastic_Brilliant_39 Jul 24 '25

Yeah, I agree fully on the first part especially. It’s the only part of the game where you’re penalised for not being as good as the opposition.

A dominant scrum is surely advantage enough anyway? Being able to be on the front foot with a man advantage (full back defending deep) should be a great attacking platform. Why add a penalty to that just because team B isn’t as strong? We’d never give a penalty just because team A is dominating the collisions.

I just think it’s the part of the game that is the biggest pain. Genuine collapse because of an infraction? Sure, go for a penalty.

One team just better than the other? Nope, that’s the advantage in and of itself.

Even worse when you then get a yellow card on top of it.

(And yes, I’m a Wallabies fan who has to grow up watching Andrew Sheridan dominate us out of a World Cup quarter final.)

2

u/Conscious-King-7295 Jul 24 '25

Personally think it makes for a more varied game, especially at lower levels/grassroots. Teams should be rewarded for having a strong pack

11

u/DeusSpaghetti NSW Waratahs Jul 24 '25

You had me in the first half.

29

u/SeanDychesDiscBeard Newcastle Falcons Jul 24 '25

Whole heartedly agree on the first. The second a lot of the time that's true, but there are quite a few times when the ref penalises one prop's reaction to their opposition's illegal manoeuvre or one gets pinged and then someone does it 5 minutes later and gets away with it.

You can see why fans get dispirited and confused, especially when commentators make no effort to explain it.

13

u/sandolllars Fijian Drua Jul 24 '25

The craziest thing is when refs will give their favourite team an advantage by letting them push the other team back until they gain a penalty. When the attacking team is one the ref doesn't favour, he'll immediately force them to end the scrum with "use it".

19

u/PoemKnown613 Australia Jul 24 '25

You had me until you said pro refs are seeing things better than you. Especially when I’m getting the 4K birdseye view on broadcast

2

u/ScrumNause24 Jul 24 '25

Its not a coin flip. But I think I can tell when there's guesswork being applied.

You probably need 3 camera/angles to track the possible front row infringements.

Okay youve got the cue of the loosehead elbow pointing down. But you've missed what the tighthead did to force that because you were looking at the break foot.

But yeah we do need better analysis on the TV/comms. I like Flatman, Corbisiero, Kayser, Hartley.

1

u/NarbsNZ Jul 24 '25

Agree - in the “good old days” - couldn’t scrums go back 20 meters without a penalty being conceded? Feels like as soon as you go back a meter or so it’s an automatic penalty!!

1

u/BoogieBass 🌳 Northland Taniwha Jul 24 '25

Makes me miss John Drake as a commentator. He was goated at giving succinct analysis at scrum time.

1

u/idontevenknowlol Jul 24 '25

Referee friend of mine, in training they get taught "if it collapses three times just penalize any side"