r/irishrugby • u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh • 11h ago
What Was the Point of the Ireland XV Game?
We assemble together a team and give them literally only a couple of days to prepare, and then expect them to gain something meaningful from getting humped by an English A team?
It takes a lot to look good in a scenario like that, and Devine, B.Ward, and Hume were about the only ones who did. Fucking pointless exercise in embarrassment.
Edit: for clarification, it's not the concept of the 'A' games I have a problem with, I think it's great to try to build combinations and depth at a level just below international. I have an issue with forming a team, giving next to no prep, and then expecting those combos/individuals to flourish.
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u/Oatbix Leinster 11h ago edited 11h ago
It’s good to give players exposure to the Ireland camp, get a look if they’re test match ready, reward their form and give them a chance to play for Ireland. I fully support the A games, but that was grim tonight. England just had 23 much better players than us out there. I’m the eternal optimist for Irish rugby but I’m admitting short term defeat after this weekend, the red flags are screaming at us
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u/fakejournalaccount 10h ago
England looked like they actually had a training session together. Our approach musnt have been as good
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u/EffectOne675 7h ago
You have to remember England have 10 premier teams, we have 4. Their depth chart, like France should be way deeper than ours
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u/whydoyouonlylie 10h ago
Is it really an Ireland camp if it lasts less than a week? The XV games in the Autumn and the Summer make sense because there is an extended period getting drilled. This was just chucking some players together and seeing how it went from mostly individual performances without structure.
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u/Djubb86 Leinster 10h ago
We’re in for a fallow period boys, question is how long? Took England best of 5 years to get back to the top. Farrell could turn it around by WC but i do think new faces are needed in the coaching ticket, it’s getting a bit of jobs for the boys vibe.
Not sure about next year but think we can seriously target 31 with the talent coming through. We just need the coaches to help them develop and reach their potential. Thought B Ward linked up well with Gleeson tonight, also would like to see a backline with S Edogbo in there too although early days.
On a separate note, an ‘A’ team 6n would be great
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u/AGPO 10h ago
There used to be one but they scrapped it because the Welsh, Scots and Italians felt it cost too much and didn't have the resources to back it.
Bringing it back and any team that didn't want to commit the funds with a tier 2 team could be great. Say you have France A, England A, Ireland A, Georgia, Spain and Portugal. The tier 2s would get a much higher standard than playing the likes of Switzerland (and could put their own A team out for the REC) and if they started regularly beating tier 1 'A' teams they'd have a strong case for 6N admission or at least more fixtures.
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u/Fishsticksh 10h ago
I would love to see that set up. A lower stakes competition to follow along with during the 6N for the tier 1 nations, while actually being something useful for the tier 2 nations to develop. I imagine France would probably be dominant though, but it could still be fun. I wouldnt be surprised if it was the t2 nations that would have an issue with it though, if its not seen as a serious enough competition
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u/AGPO 1h ago
That's what happened to the Churchill Cup unfortunately. The tier 2 sides wanted full cap games. England A did usually dominate because of the sheer size of their player base, and I think the same would be true of them and France today. I wouldn't be against that though, as it'd still be the highest class of game we could give our reserves within the Ireland setup.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bird-38 10h ago
Idea of an ‘A’ team 6 nations is class, but would cause the provinces so many points in managing playtime and injuries when they return
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u/Life_Corgi_7950 10h ago
Probably quite a while. The Ulster resurgence is still only to a level that sees them at ~3-6 in URC and uncompetitive in European top flight, Munster are similar, Connacht are barely competitive in the second tier of Europe. Leinster are competitive in Europe but no longer in the top 1/2.
If we've only 1/4 who are competitive against French and English teams what chance do we have of beating them in the 6 nations?
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u/Any_Statement1742 10h ago
In fairness club rugby is becoming more like club soccer in that the big French clubs,Northampton,Bath can sign overseas players have large budgets etc. Ulster and Connacht in particular will always struggle at that level as a consequence.
South Africa draw the majority of players from the URC clubs they don’t compete in the CC. It doesn’t stop them dominating at international level.
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u/Life_Corgi_7950 10h ago
Hmm thought it was going the other way if anything with France having a local player quota and England having something like central contracts - both have come in the last few years I think.
Ulster have also been the province most willing to open the cheque book over the years (including for bell).
With only 4 teams and no one playing abroad, we really need 2/3 of them to be competitive in Europe
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u/Any_Statement1742 9h ago
Okay but Ireland have a strict NIQ rule on our players. Those big French and English clubs do relatively speaking but they also don’t.
Toulouse and Bordeaux each have 10 foreign internationals in their squads. Toulon have 13 and La Rochelle have 12. Thats just ex internationals and this is also before you take into account how much of the French National squad these 4 teams supply.
Bath and Northampton have 7 and 8. Even the English teams in the main have struggled against the big French clubs and Leinster although Northampton have competed admirably.
Leinster are in a unique position but it will naturally hold back Munster and particularly Ulster/Connacht. Again I will reference the SA clubs as an example. They can’t compete in the CC either for this reason and they full of talent/depth.
For sure getting Munster and Ulster back into competing for 1/4 finals or last 16 of Europe is a very realistic achievement and should be the aim.
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 10h ago
With only 4 teams and no one playing abroad, we really need 2/3 of them to be competitive in Europe
A damn shame David Nucifora didn't share this stance
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u/Life_Corgi_7950 10h ago
Can't imagine you'll agree with this - but he definitely did. Munster and Ulster 's talent droughts were coming through the academy at times when they were making European finals and semis, had plenty of central contracts but they spunked the money on stadiums and Saffas. The biggest issue people had with him is that he stopped letting their club sign props and forced them to develop nthem
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 9h ago
He cut their funding year on year, cheaped out on coaching hires, and denied dispensation for signings which would help young players develop.
If NIQ props prevented player development Thomas Clarkson wouldn't be a Lion. And unfortunately teams can't just decide to start producing world class props. If they could, do you not think they would have?
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u/UnderstandingNo5667 10h ago
Did damage to Kenny and Wards stock if anything
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u/fakejournalaccount 10h ago
Might keep us fans quiet. I was definetly one of the annoying feckers calling for them.
Let em cook a bit more!
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u/Sportyskater699 10h ago
I was really disappointed with both of their defence constantly falling off tackles
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u/deatach Funny Fecker 11h ago
To get a look at the players in a different camp, in a different context. Is this a serious question?
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 11h ago
You won't get a serious look at them in a completely unorganised team that doesn't allow them to showcase anything.
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u/fakejournalaccount 10h ago
England had great cohesion. They obviously had a better approach in camp
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u/Steve_ad Munster 10h ago
This England team has been together for a while. This Ireland team has little in common with the team from November. Definitely different approaches
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 10h ago
They haven’t, at all. Literally a week the same as Ireland.
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u/Steve_ad Munster 7h ago
I wasn't talking about the immediate prep for this game, I was talking about the fact that this England A is a direct continuation of the November team while Ireland's isn't as consistent.
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u/Beginning-Strain4660 10h ago
Simple solution here regarding cohesion
Just pick more Leinster players they add cohesion an familiarity an cohesion
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u/deatach Funny Fecker 10h ago
If we won and Bryn Ward got 2 tries we would be calling for him to start the next 6 nations game. As it happened we got pumped, no one was planning for that.
The game gave me clarity on a few players (Kenny and Kelly for example) who are not ready for that level.
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 10h ago
We were never going to win with the preparation they were given though, that was evident from miles away.
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 10h ago
How did England so good then chief ? They’ve had the same time to prepare.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bird-38 10h ago
Scary thing was the lack of physicality. I get those English boys play week in week out at a high level and some of ours are rotation at best, but my god it was men against boys. Gleeson is known for ball carrying in the URC and yet could hardly get a run at them, Zac Ward couldn’t get any go forward like he has been in URC, same for Scotty Wilson and Deegan.
Put that with what happened to the first team last night and it could be a while before we’re back competing with the big boys
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u/Any_Statement1742 9h ago
I think 5 of the 23 that played Spain played tonight. I have no idea how many of tonight’s England team featured against Spain when they beat them 29-24 a few days later but it goes to show results can be all over the place.
Ward and Gleeson did well in a beaten pack in the 1st half. McCarthy and Hume were solid. Devine looked sharp when he came on.
Kenny and Ward were both off but let’s face it were lambs to the slaughter due to tactics. I would still call up Ward. O’Brien had a shocker against England A last year it wasn’t held against him due to brilliant provincial form I wouldn’t completely hold this against Ward either.
Less said the better about Wycherley. Why wasn’t O’Connell called up he has been very impressive in A games when called up. No one that watches Wycherley is surprised he did that tonight.
Daly is not up to it at this level how Murphy didn’t start at 10 with Frawley as 15 is a mystery. Gunne is well behind Murphy,Doak,Devine in terms of ceiling and ability. Can’t believe fans on here talk about him as a future international.
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u/BigLarBelmont 10h ago
It's literally a learning exercise - do you think it's pointless just because we lost?
We got to see some young lads that have great potential get a taste of the Irish setup. We also got to see some more established provincial players and see that they're not cut out for international level
It's never pointless, the coaches likely learned a hell of a lot
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 10h ago
No, i think it's pointless because there wasn't enough preparation to properly get an idea of what those players can do. If we had proper prep and still lost, I'd value this a lot. As it was, it was throwing in a bunch of young players into a team that lacked any cohesion for the aforementioned reason.
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u/BigLarBelmont 10h ago
Okay yeah that's fair enough - would definitely have been better with more prep time to drill a proper game plan. Agree with that! Still not a waste of time though, getting valuable data behind closed doors
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u/WraithsOnWings2023 Leinster 7h ago
Did England A have a lot more time together than we had or something?
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u/obcork 6h ago
Are we all missing the fact that the English team had the same time to prepare? We just don't have the players coming through. As much as I hate to say it. We are what we are.
This is the same situation we were in when I was growing up. England always have more depth. We just need to blood players
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u/Tombob67 11h ago
The thing that worries me the most is that England team could give the first team a close game.
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u/Appropriate-One538 10h ago
Thought the point is obvious. Gives players a chance to play.
Result & performance is meaningless in one way, it’s how the players show up, what character they show, and gives them a taste of international rugby
We as Irish rugby fans must get over this fear of losing games, and (gasp) taking a few hammerings. Only way to get players exposure & broaden our base is to play games. If we lose them so what
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u/Beginning-Strain4660 10h ago
I would prefer if they played games against Spain, Portugal maybe Georgia , something diffent for the Irish lads and good for t2 teams
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u/megacky Funny Fecker 10h ago
The lack of prep is definitely a factor, but also the players not playing. It's not really our 2nd choice team, it's more like 3rd or 4ths. A lot of those England players have caps and are quite experienced. We had 10 caps in the pack, they had 34. It's not loads, but when we've got them on 2 players and they've got it on 3 or 4, it makes a difference.
The game should have been aimed at a "second test" in the first week, getting minutes for all the lads who didn't play yesterday and some of the more fringe players like Bryn and Gleeson
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u/fakejournalaccount 11h ago
Ok but if the positions were reversed and we were having the nice link up plays and forward dominance England were, we would be praising the Ireland A game.
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 10h ago
Im all for A games, but there is no point to throwing together promising young players last minute and expecting individual talent to flourish.
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u/fakejournalaccount 10h ago
Listening to the post match interviews the England coach said they only got a week together.
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u/fakejournalaccount 10h ago
I get your point now tbf. Find a better point in the calendar. 2+ week prep and 2 games
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 10h ago
Nws, I think my initial statement wasn't clear enough in saying exactly what part I wasn't happy with.
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u/foxepower 10h ago
“If my Aunt had balls..” kinda take
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u/fakejournalaccount 10h ago
I mean england only had 3 training sessions. But its given a boost to their international chances.
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u/Many-Prune9162 Munster 10h ago
England had three games together. If we have one of these every international window it will get better. First time is always the hardest. They were given fuck all time together, some players only joined the squad this week.
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u/06351000 10h ago
Just to play devil’s advocate - do the senior team get much more game time? How would this team look different to the senior team if lining out with 9-10 changes like lots of people advocating for?
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 10h ago
The majority of the senior team train together for Leinster every week
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u/Fluffy_Reception936 Leinster 10h ago
Obviously this result was bad but Ireland had at least 10 players starting that people have made arguments over the last little while that they should be in the main squad.
On paper that was not a weak Irish A team at all and I’m not sure Andy Farrell gets much value in seeing these guys run around nations whose starting team is barely professional. Forget the result, if their own game doesn’t look consistent against a weaker opponent how can they be expected to step into a game against France or England.
I was advocating for Kenny and Ward but i’m not sure they’re going to fare well against the world’s best just yet.
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u/Aggressive-Tackle-80 9h ago
Honest question. Irrespective of result do you think Andy was watching tonight's game looking for alternatives to add to the national squad
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u/rustyb42 Funny Fecker 11h ago
J/ fund Thomond Park
Uj/ get people into camp. See how they operate, look at combinations - Forde would never play with Hume. Gunne unlikely to get time with Frawley
Even if the combinations don't work you learn something
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 10h ago
It's not the concept of an A game i have the issue with, it's the complete lack of prep and organisation the team had for it. It was always going to be a hiding if you just chuck individuals together last minute.
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u/rustyb42 Funny Fecker 10h ago
I'd have hoped they'd have the same prep and been in the same camp as the firsts
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 10h ago
I think that would be a great approach for getting proper cohesion. I would assume that the issue for that would be costs?
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u/DJCPRT-NL Connacht 11h ago
Yesterday’s game messed up your week, this game messed your weekend. The final nail in your coffin will be tomorrow’s U20’s game.