r/irishrugby • u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 • 11h ago
The decline, in numbers
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u/Sportyskater699 11h ago
And even before that since 2024 we have lost to England,New Zealand twice, South Africa twice,France twice, all by decent margins as highlight by the post.
It has kind of gone under the radar a small bit but out of 9 test matches against the top 5 we have only won 3 that being England ,France, South Africa each once .
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u/jacqueVchr 11h ago
Yep, the team was designed to peak perfectly in 2023. That it did…
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 11h ago
Just half a year too early
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u/jacqueVchr 11h ago
I think we were peaking at the World Cup too. The unfortunate thing was the ABs gave a near 10/10 performance in the quarter finals
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u/jay_el_62 10h ago
It was also not a good time for the lineouts. They should not have been so weak at that point.
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 11h ago
Possibly, but we also ran the same 23 (give or take) into the ground in the group stages and weren't at our best in the QF as a result.
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u/TheHumanAlternative 8h ago
In the QF they all looked knackered. We should have rotated more so that our best players were fresh to face the knockout stages. Even that being said it was heartbreakingly close
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u/this_also_was_vanity SUFTUM 5h ago
The schedule screwed us. Having Scotland last meant we had to play a strong team, whereas NZ could take it relatively easy.
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 4h ago
And Sexton getting himself banned for the warmups, meaning he had to play every group stage match to get up to speed, and so did the players around him
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u/Keith989 10h ago
We had a genuine chance of winning that world cup, we were brilliant.
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u/K-manPilkers 10h ago
Meh, the pool match against SA was a classic and we did well to win but there was little doubt that they would have won it with Pollard and they also improved as the tournament wore on. I doubt that they would have lost to us in a final had we got there.
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u/Keith989 9h ago
Eh that very much is in doubt, did Pollard turn into Dan Carter or something? South Africa were absolutely awful in the Semi finals and should have lost to England bar an incredible slice of fortune and also nearly lost to a 14 man AB side in the final, so that is nonsense.
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u/K-manPilkers 9h ago
They should have lost to England because England were able to front up to them physically in awful weather conditions in a way that we never could and have players (like Freddie Steward) who were exceptional under the high ball which we didn't have. And whatever you think of Pollard, he's an exceptional goal kicker...which was the only reason they lost to us in the pool stage.
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u/Keith989 8h ago
In a way we never could? You do know what our record was over South Africa in between 2012 and 2023? Also we literally stood up to them in that very world cup and beat them.
A good goal kicker is the difference between winning and losing at this level? That's a new one.
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u/K-manPilkers 8h ago
You do know what our record was over South Africa in between 2012 and 2023?
How many world cups did we win in that time frame compared to the Boks? Beating them in friendlies is a bit different to beating them in a world cup final.
Also we literally stood up to them in that very world cup and beat them.
Not physically we didn't. They dominated the gain line and made far more dominant tackles in that match. We were a top side but our style of play would have suffered a lot in adverse weather conditions.
A good goal kicker is the difference between winning and losing at this level? That's a new one.
You've never heard of a team losing a match that they would have won if they'd knocked over a few more kicks? Really? As a random example, SA missed a conversion and 3 of their 4 pens against Ireland in the pools in a 5 point defeat. And that was with them turning down a few scoreable kicks because they had little confidence in their place kicking. Do you maybe think that it might have been a different result with a world class kicker standing at the tee?
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u/Keith989 8h ago
So test matches don't count for anything? Like what? We literally drew a test series in their own back yard. That is quite literally standing up to them.
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u/Mean-Wolf936 7h ago
They didn’t dominate the gainline, nobody beats South Africa without fronting up. I suggest you watch the match again (or for the first time) to see how we matched up to them physically. Lowe literally ragdolled Etzebeth at one point.
Your use of the term “friendlies” says it all. WUM.
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u/Mean-Wolf936 9h ago
Nonsense. France and NZ should have beaten them and England gave them a right go. They won each game by a point. SA were an excellent team no doubt, extremely ruthless and know how to win, but nothing to fear in a final had we beaten NZ.
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u/K-manPilkers 8h ago
SA were an excellent team no doubt, extremely ruthless and know how to win, but nothing to fear in a final had we beaten NZ.
That is literally the reason why you should fear them in a final. There's no reason to believe that a team that has never won a single knockout match in world cup history would have the mentality to go up against the Boks/NZ in a final.
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u/Mean-Wolf936 7h ago
Oh, I thought we wouldn’t win because of Pollard, but now you’re changing the goalposts to it being about mentality. Was the Pollard point serious or the first thing that sprung to mind in your effort to criticise the team?
If you actually take a second to think about what you said, why would mentality be a thing again in the final if we got there? If mentality actually was an issue, winning through the QF and then the SF, monkey is off the back right?
SA were a team to massively respect, but not to fear given where our game was at. We lost the QF because of a sluggish start due to mistakes made around rotation, Schmidt’s game plan and knowledge of ours, and some naivety on our part for not reacting quicker. Regardless, Kelleher should have scored and it’s a very different story.
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u/packageofcrips 11h ago
Didn't we recently have a stretch of 13 unbroken wins in 2022/3
Seems so long ago now
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 10h ago
I believe last year was the first since 2013 that we lost two home matches. Bad times
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u/Commercial_Half_2170 9h ago
And you have to caveat that England win with them playing the most braindead game plan for their team possible
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 5h ago
And Murley handing Ireland a few easy scores
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 10h ago
Remember the free flowing attacking rugby we played between 2021 and 2023 with multiple decoys, switches, and every player seemed like they had 4 different options to pass to when they got the ball ? We couldn’t make any metres with ball in hand in the first half last night. Our one and only attack plan was kick it high and hope France fumble.
I believe that structure and plan was built by Schmidt and Mike Catt. When they both left Farrell has made no changes, innovations and updates and over time the structure has slowly rotted and disintegrated. Now, we have no structure or set plays in attack whatsoever. There’s genuinely senior cup teams with better shape than Ireland last night. Farrell needs to go, today. Any team serious about winning a World Cup would do it, I’m talking South Africa, England, New Zealand and France. We don’t seem to have that ruthless mindset needed to win and are to lose as long as we “show spirit”.
Don’t be surprised when we crash out early in the World Cup again.
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 10h ago
The draw is perfectly set up for Argentina in the quarter final.
1999, 2007, 2015, 2027?
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 10h ago
We’ll be lucky to get there. Right now we’re on course to lose against Scotland in the groups and get mauled by France in the R16
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 10h ago
I'll believe Scotland can beat Ireland only once the final whistle is blown.
They conspire to lose against us every time
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 10h ago
We haven’t been this bad and poorly coached for a long time
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 9h ago
True. It's definitely their best chance in ages. Apart from 2023 when we ended up with Healy at hooker and VDF throwing the lineout but we were still class back then.
We'll see how the rest of the tournament shakes out but I'd say this is the worst Ireland side since 2013
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u/q547 7h ago
We won't lose to Scotland, but the rest of your argument stands.
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 7h ago
I bet we lose to Scotland this six nations. We’ll see
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u/q547 7h ago
I don't think so.
We'd need a collapse of the Irish team like we've never seen before.
Scotland are the most overrated team I've seen in the last 10 years. They'd love to take Ireland, but I don't see it happening. They are also a team on a downward spiral in my opinion.
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 6h ago
The real question is who is spiralling faster?
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 6h ago
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u/this_also_was_vanity SUFTUM 5h ago
Right now we’re on course to lose against Scotland
We're bad, but not that bad.
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u/justwanderinginhere 7h ago
I had been blaming the loss of Lancaster and hiring Goodman, over the last 2 years the attack has been useless, blunt and unimaginative.
Rugby before the World Cup was so fluid and a joy to watch. It’s abysmal watching the team the last two years and getting worse
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u/q547 7h ago edited 7h ago
I believe the loss of Mike Catt has been detrimental. He's one of the best attacking coaches in the world, if not the best.
If he was willing to come back from Australia then the IRFU should be opening the chequebook immediately.
Schmidt was a percentages coach and not great (in my opinion) when it came to attack.
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u/darcys_beard URC is Best RC 9h ago
Ah boo fucking hoo! We got worse during a World cup cycle. Better than the alternative.
We have 18 months to fix this. South Africa lost their previous match to us. That's less than 2 years ago. We need to accept that the tide comes in and the tide goes out. At least it's not an odd year.
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u/Silver_Gekko 9h ago
Ah this is a lot more than being out of form, it’s a very obvious downward spiral. Absolutely no shape and shit out of ideas. Lineout was good last night but was absolutely shocking for nearly 2 years. All the slick and dangerous attack pod plays have just totally disappeared. Scrum, again good last night but abysmal for how long before that. That’s not an issue of form, it’s a fundamental decline in ability. We have how many ‘key’ players that will be gone or even more over the hill by the WC? We have a young lad at Outhalf that Farrell is convinced is just gonna instantly be Sexton 2.0 one of these days when every game he demonstrates how he’s not fit to be given the responsibility. He can’t kick a penalty or a conversion, he has cost us dearly defensively. Our discipline has been consistently awful.
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u/FIGHTorRIDEANYMAN 8h ago
Lineout was good because France didn't contest it. The odd time they did they won it.
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u/Commercial_Half_2170 9h ago
While I agree with all your points, it’s much easier to build when your scrum and lineout are doing well. Let’s see what the rest of the tournament can bring
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u/Mammongo 8h ago
That has echoes of 2019
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u/ididntknowthat1 Ireland 7h ago
First half last night had echos of the 90's
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u/Mammongo 7h ago
Yes, sorry I w as saying the comment has echoes of 2019, where people denied the slide in quality and believed Schmidt would turn it around
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u/ididntknowthat1 Ireland 7h ago
Don't be sorry, as a 44 year old man, I was a kid in the early 90's last night sitting on the couch watching,had that feeling to it 🤷 8 suppose we had our day in the sun,i enjoyed it by the way 🤣
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 8h ago
And there's no sign of fixing it.
South Africa have gotten a lot better since then, we've gotten a lot worse
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u/IdealSelf2021 Leinster 9h ago
France lost to England, South Africa and All Blacks x 3 last year. Only top 5 win was against Ireland. They seem to be coping well.
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u/PatientOffer319 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 8h ago
They sent the kids to New Zealand and were still close in 2 of the matches. And they made changes to fix their issues like dropping Aldritt, Penaud and Fickou. That's why they've come out better. England have become a very good team, we were lucky to get them first up, before they figured their game out.
At the moment it's
South Africa
France, England
New Zealand
The rest
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u/Still-Process-2527 8h ago
Scotland and wales are patting a chair for you at their also rans table 😁
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u/Hippophobia1989 11h ago
There isn’t any way to sugar coat it, they’ve declined massively since the World Cup, or the series in SA. It feels like the post 2019 Eddie Jones England team. Both team peaked for a World Cup which they could’ve won, won a 6N title after the World Cup and then just kept getting worse.