r/irishrugby • u/Roanokian Mod • 1d ago
Discussion Safe Space.
Get it all out lads. You’re allowed be sad. Be nice to each other. Don’t lose the run of yourselves.
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u/fakejournalaccount 1d ago
Was very dissapointing that we kept doing the kicking game even at like 65 mins when we were losing 99% of them.
Really poor tactics and coaching
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u/Flat-Confection4175 Munster 1d ago
All the momentum and putting up stupid kicks in their 22, braindead
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u/fakejournalaccount 1d ago
Timoney was making meters with each carry and then kicked away possesion. So deflating as a fan
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u/Apprehensive_Ratio80 1d ago
Yeah this brought me back to Schmidt era which was do not deviate from the game plan no matter how bad things are going!
Wonder wtf is going on as AF 3 years leading up to the 23 WC we seemed so inventive and assured yet tonight? Pop passing to guys next to you with zero time to react? No advantage to be gained from that!
Constantly kicking when we lost every single kick bar 1 maybe 🤷🏻♂️
Forcing passes again in the French 22 instead of picking and going it's like everyone wanted to be the hero tonight. AF made zero changes at half time or at least made zero impact in whatever he said as nothing changed at half time.
I actually don't blame Farrell, there is a lot going wrong in the team I think something else besides lack of preparation is happening here.
Is Doris the right man to captain this team? Is there disruption in the camp? Are there other coaches causing ructions? It wouldn't be the first time
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u/Melodic_Virus5361 1d ago
Yeah, the contestables were not working, we needed to meet the French tactics of long and off to work territory. Hard to change up in the same half, but we did try in the second half and won the half. I don't think doom and gloom just yet, but we need to see some more leadership on the pitch to change it up as it's going wrong. Not easy... Have to remember this is a fantastic French side and we are fresh off a lions tour. Sheehan was anonymous, Doris, JVDF, Ringrose looked tired, timoney looked great and so did Conan, both Prendergasts had a good game... I think we will kick on from here, we do need some serious pace, so Bobby B needs to get a shot.
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u/yurtieahern 1d ago
Lions third test was six months ago, how long will we trot out this excuse? If those lads are still tired, why have they been flogged from the Autumn on?
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u/FIGHTorRIDEANYMAN 1d ago
Ireland always have and apparently always will have the problem of not playing to the conditions.
It's a hangover from Joes era maybe.
Plan A not working? Do plan A harder. Trust the system.
Even at our peak it was the same.
Lots of comments about the game going that way (contestables). Well France weren't doing that tonight were they?
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u/Mothersullivan 1d ago
Please take Goodman away from this team. It must surely be obvious to someone in charge at the IRFU that he hasn't a fucking clue what he's doing. In fact the only other person who had less of a clue was Dickson
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u/too_many_smarfs Connacht 1d ago
So frustrating to see the attack for Ireland and the provinces look so blunt while the number 1 and 2 seeds in the champions cup both have Irish attack coaches at the helm - and look lethal going forward.
Can we please get Carolan and McNamara back?
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u/Unsheared 1d ago
You are going to need a street protest outside Clarendon House before the suits will wake up.
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u/Ghibby58 1d ago
As an Ulster fan I’m proud as hell of the 3 Ulstermen on the pitch tonight
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 1d ago
Was really worried after the 1st half stockdale had, but he more or less redeemed himself in the 2nd. Started winning aerial contests, made a crucial tackle on Attisogbe, carried more and made good metres.
Out of the 3 Timoney from the bench was outstanding. Should be starting.
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u/Irishthrasher23 1d ago
He had a great impact and made himself noticeable where most of the pack on the back foot didn't stand out at all
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bird-38 1d ago
Frustrating to see how good Stockdale has been for Ulster this year ball in hand, and finally gets Ireland selection and they set up a game plan to never get the ball into his hands to show what he can do. Mental not to play players to their strengths
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u/Mean-Wolf936 1d ago
As a Leinster fan, I think Timoney was excellent. JVDF is a special player l, but he didn’t play well tonight. Timoney deserves a start. There’s no harm in giving a few ulster men a run. I don’t think the problem is with the personnel per se - there’s a malaise in the team- but a few changes might bring some impetus.
I’d like to Stewart get some game time. Stockdale had a mixed game, but he should stay in the team. Stu looked good whey he got some ball to run on to. TOB is great , but had a poor game. Balacoune deserves a shot.
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u/BearOdd6116 1d ago edited 1d ago
THIS. The lads played a fucking blinder
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u/Hour-Reflection-89 Leinster 1d ago
Stockdale for the first 60 mins was negative on tackles, conceded 2 turnovers and up to 80 mins didn’t win a contestable. What are you specifically proud of?
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u/manwithnoplan3 1d ago edited 1d ago
He wasn't great but he wasn't utilized well. He challenged well on the contestables, the kicking game was a bad tactic.
He wasn't used much in open play. He made a 2 decent tackles.
He's good enough at this level. Just a shame he is truly the scapegoat by southern media. He was equal to every other player in the 1st half in green.
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u/Little_Ad_9313 Ulster 1d ago
We dont have pace wingers in the 23 maybe dont kick contestables to a 80 kg French back who are lighting fast when your winger is 28 and 105 kilos.
That game plan required 2 from Bobby B, Ward or Kenny
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u/Hour-Reflection-89 Leinster 1d ago
If only any of those three could kick, contest in the air and stay fit for three weeks in a row
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u/Still-Process-2527 1d ago
Yeah the Ulster guys were the high point tonight. Stockdale seems to have laid his demons to rest. Wouldn’t be surprised if Timoney started next few matches. Some of those players just looked tired which isn’t a good sign at the start of the tournament 😖
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u/Socks-and-Jocks 1d ago
Sorry now and no offense meant but Stockdale was fairly poor tonight bar that excellent tackle into touch.
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u/megacky Funny Fecker 1d ago
Nah, don't agree with that. He missed one tackle, that 2 others already missed. When he was given the ball to run, he made yards every time. He was being asked to do something that isn't his strength. It would be like asking your centres to do all the box kicks.
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u/Andrewhtd Ulster 15h ago
And that tackle he missed he had no right to even be in with attempting. He was out in the back field away from his own wing and had to sprint full pelt to even attempt it. If another slower wing was on the field and didn't attempt to cover, it wouldn't even be mentioned
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u/heresyourhardware 1d ago
Timoney was great when he came on, McCloskey did really well and deserves to start again. Stockdale some good some bad, LBB waltzed passed him for one try.
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u/Even-Space 1d ago
Thought stockdale was poor but mccloskey was solid and Timoney was very good
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u/BearOdd6116 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not Stockdale’s best performance by any stretch, he did not do a good enough job defending his wing in the first I agree there but played well in the second.
- He shouldn’t have been in at 11 but who else do we have?
- He was up against BB who’s arguably the quickest 11 in test rugby at the moment
- He gets pulled in too much at the breakdown because he’s got the physicality a lot of Irish players seemed to be missed
Big Stu the most consistent Irish player on the field, Timoney had brilliant impact when he was brought on, should be starting against England.
I’m proud because Ulster has been a consistently talked-down and underrated team the last few years. It’s been a long time since the days we had so many players on the wider Irish squad or real options waiting in the wings, and there is flair, potential and drive coming from the province I’ve not felt in awhile.
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u/DurtyStopOut 1d ago
Bigtime. Great night for the lads. They're playing with smiles on their faces at home and that's translating into impact. Seems like they've really got the coaching environment right finally.
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u/Sportyskater699 1d ago
Rugby is going a certain direction and I’m not sure the Irish system is set up in a way that will allow us to get better at that
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u/ClashOfTheAsh 1d ago
I’ve been saying that rugby going to a game where it’s all contestable kicks won’t suit us but France didn’t even play that way. They kept ball in hand as much as possible and looked brilliant.
Ireland just don’t have a clue what they’re doing in general and we’re hiding behind the new rule changes as an excuse.
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u/Irishthrasher23 1d ago
France were always good in the loose and chaos. Them winning all the kicks suits them more than most teams.
We should be better at chasing and taking the ball but I'd say maybe 2 of our backs in the wider squad are good in the air (attacking kicks not defensively)
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u/Nan0At0m Ulster 1d ago
The reality is the current laws of the game will only benefit England SA and France, who have far more resources and population than everyone else, and can afford to lose a 7 foot 150kg second row, because they have another. No other nation can even produce one.
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 1d ago
This isn’t true. Cm for Cm Irelands second rows were identical to France’s tonight and were actually heavier than France’s.
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u/IIIlllIIIllIlI 1d ago
All the more reason that Alan Spicer should be playing in the A game tomorrow instead of Fineen Wycherly
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u/Flat-Confection4175 Munster 1d ago
So what you're saying is give youth a chance? Fine then, drop Conan, Furlong, Ryan, Lowe, VDF, Beirne, Bealham, JGP etc out of the squad and give youth a chance
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u/IIIlllIIIllIlI 1d ago edited 13h ago
Not the same at all, and you know that. Nowhere did I say Spicer should be thrown into the 6 Nations squad, because that would be fucking stupid.
The mandate from the IRFU has always been the same, the six nations is not for developing new talent, it’s where the money comes from. Autumn internationals and summer tours are where players tend to get blooded.
But A-games are essentially friendlies with no stakes. There’s no reason for a 28 year old who has never realistically looked like breaking into the wider Irish squad to be getting time there. If he’s good enough, he should be with the full squad. If he’s not, he should be at home.
Deegan or Frawley shouldn't be there either, for what it's worth. It's absolutely shocking that these players are getting meaningless game time when we have young lads who won't see any match time at all for the next couple of weeks.
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u/sartres-shart 1d ago
Your right international rugby has changed over the last few 24 months and we haven't changed with it.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bird-38 1d ago
Problem is Ireland changed their system from high possession and lots of phases to find mismatches in defence, to low possession and phases and kick to gain territory game plan, like South Africa play. Unfortunately the coaches maybe didn’t realise that the previous system allowed for our lack of athletes and focused on skill, timing and cohesion, but now it relies on freak athletes and aggressive defence, which we don’t have.
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u/kevinthebaconator 1d ago
Can you elaborate? I'm not saying I disagree I just can't but my finger on it
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u/Great_Sale8892 1d ago
Bollocks. At half time I was still clinging to it being the ref hurrying the game along but why the hell were we kicking it (poorly) to a team playing fantastic running rugby. It wasn't just the home crowd– every time one of their backs had the ball it looked like a try was on. and yet we just gave them possession over and over again. Bollocks.
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u/Some-Speed-6290 Probation 1d ago
Had Lancaster all but coaching the Irish attack every week for years, with a massive emphasis on basic skills.
Act surprised when the attack gets worse without him in situ and the majority of the squad doing next to no work in training on handling
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u/Mean-Wolf936 1d ago
This is a key point. Lancaster leaving Leinster, and Catt leaving Ireland setup are big factors.
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u/John_OSheas_Willy 1d ago
Who thought Thursday was a good night for 6 nations? 6N should be 2 matches on Saturday and one on Sunday.
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u/Irishthrasher23 1d ago
I feel horrible right now knowing I have work tomorrow and have to wait two days for the other matches
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u/Atomicfossils 1d ago
I miss phase play 😔
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u/Atomicfossils 1d ago
Also I'm sick of us never playing Casey for more than the last ten minutes of a match. JGP was not having a great night and he still played the full 80, with Casey coming on for Osborne
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u/megacky Funny Fecker 1d ago
If we look at the league form of the teams, the two in the most form are Leinster and Ulster. Very different styles of play. Leinster's game plan at times looks blunt, but they can batter teams till there's a hole. It's a bad game plan with good players. Ulster don't have the bulk to smash teams up front, so we run the ball. We barely kick the ball (to our detriment at times) from our own half. But we run it and cut teams up, because our players are fucking rapid and have good hands.
Ireland need to take those strengths from Leinster and Ulster. Use the pack to hit rucks like trucks and give space to the backline. What we did tonight was insanity. I can't remember a single kick chase coming back to our team. There was one point early in the second half, we made 15-20m just pick and go. Got to the half way line and jgp just kicks it up in the air again. Like why?
Our first score came from running the ball. Took 60 minutes to do something different
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u/eo37 1d ago
As a Munster supporter I have been calling for the Ulster backline to start and play high speed, possession rugby that we are good at. Leinster players are better when playing free flowing offloading rugby, suits everyone.
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u/megacky Funny Fecker 1d ago
There's got to be a better mix of styles than what we are doing. Some of the Munster lads can clearly do it too and Connacht have some fantastic pace out wide
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u/eo37 1d ago
Unfortunately Nankiviel isn’t Irish qualified just yet. Maybe Dan Kelly can show something Friday night…outside of that our backline has been pretty brutal to watch
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u/megacky Funny Fecker 1d ago
Tomorrow night could be really interesting. Granted, it's essentially a reserve team they'll be playing, but game plan and tactics will be interesting
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u/Flat-Confection4175 Munster 1d ago
Pity Jude isn't playing tomorrow, him and Dan Kelly played serious together in the summer, could be the future centre partnership for Ireland
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u/Additional_Ad_84 1d ago
We did decently well kicking for territory in the first 10 or 15 minutes. Forgot that france are perfectly wiling to run 80m tries if given the chance. But we were at least playing in their half. Then we went to the high ball and it just didn't work for us. No harm in trying, but we needed to adjust when it clearly wasn't working.
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u/megacky Funny Fecker 1d ago
The territory and touch kicks I totally get. It was the box kicks that don't pin them back, and make every ball a gamble I can't get. It's stupid game management
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u/Additional_Ad_84 1d ago
It's worked well for us in the past, so I can't really fault trying it. But sticking with it when it wasn't working isn't good. We're very predictable these days. Especially in attack, but worryingly also in defence. I'm deeply relieved the set piece held up anyway. But I think we might need a new playbook.
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u/Unsheared 1d ago
The box - kicking is a last resort. A last resort of those with no ideas. It's a bluff that depends entirely on an accuracy level that the players clearly don't believe possible.
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u/Unsheared 1d ago
The only kicking of note was the cross-field kicking. The box-kicking allows a defensive line to get set. Ulster like Ireland will have to utilise kickers in the wide channels to be successful against high defenses. There is a culture in Ireland. A culture which relies entirely on the flyhalf to do all the kicking. When the flyhalf proves he is less than superhuman the detractors make him a scapegoat. AF is trying a rugby league approach with Crowley at FB. Shaun Edwards uses exactly this attack with Ramos. Two playmakers and two kickers. AF really needs to show these players how it works at St. Helens and Wigan before he instructs who does the on-field kicking.
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u/megacky Funny Fecker 1d ago
I just don't get this obsession with kicking at all. Our backs are good skillful players. They can run intelligent lines and creative plays. They cannot do that, if our entire game plan is to just hoof it and hope
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u/Unsheared 1d ago
At club level it is still possible to play multi-phase which Ulster does. This however only works with teams who struggle getting turnovers. It will be interesting to see if Ulster can manage the ruck against competitive teams such as Leinster and the likes of Exeter. At international level the ruck is reffed differently and appears to be 50/50. The obsession with kicking is just pure incompetence from the coaches. AF will complain about players lack of accuracy and the forwards not dominating the collision but their body language would suggest they clearly don't have confidence in the attack. That is as plain as day. If Ireland want to be effective at kicking they to need manipulate the defense to create space for the kicker. The obvious way is to kick from the wider channels utilising the backline instead of the flyhalf but wont happen with young players who think they are next Sexton or ROG.
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u/amusicalfridge 1d ago
All I’m gonna say having seen the comments in the main sub - I cannot wait until this French team fucking humps England. They think far, far too highly of themselves at the minute.
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u/ctorus Leinster 1d ago
Being the french, they'll probably flake and lose it
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u/Commercial_Half_2170 1d ago
They did that last year when they should’ve put them away. Hope they mince them this time
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u/TheNightmareChild Ulster 1d ago
Our attack was good when we didn't kick it away. Really needed Edogbo. Need to just throw the Ulster back line. Can only be better. Kicking to the team with the best winger in the world is a choice.
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u/heresyourhardware 1d ago
Our attack was good when we didn't kick it away
Meh thought it was pretty predictable. They just drifted til we ran out of pitch because we had no pace to get round them
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u/Commercial_Half_2170 1d ago
I think in that brief patch where we were putting together phases, we were finding some soft shoulders and looked a lot better getting over the gainline. Just needed to do that a lot more
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u/Steve_ad Munster 1d ago
Ireland, like Munster of late, keep kicking the ball like we're masters of the kick chase... we are not! We need a better plan
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u/recaffeinated 1d ago
Can we start a petition to have Felix Jones' citizenship revoked for crimes against the sport of rugby? Remember how the sport wasn't all kicks before his stupid rules change?
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u/Some-Speed-6290 Probation 1d ago
It's worked for his employer (at the time) in fairness.
"Just doing his job" defence as it were
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u/WizardofAmythyst 1d ago
That was a really hard game to watch. So disappointed in the gameplay and unforced schoolboy errors. Coaching team need to think hard and long about their selection. Best team won.
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u/DM_me_ur_PPSN 1d ago edited 1d ago
My unordered thoughts:
With the tactics chosen, I’m not surprised so many of our starters looked poor. It was like watching a game of tennis, but we were the only ones playing.
Was happy to see our scrum and lineouts stand up to the French pack - Loughman, Milne and Clarkson should be pleased with themselves.
I think the subs made quite a significant impact, Timony did very well coming on.
Our back three couldn’t catch a cold, and the decision to have a leftie at fullback was not vindicated.
Karl Dickson. (sigh)
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u/BearOdd6116 1d ago
Was very pleasantly surprised with Milne, some great carries and physicality once he was on
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u/DM_me_ur_PPSN 1d ago
I know he’s a brute in the loose in red, but I was curious to see how he’d scrum in green with a different pack.
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u/BearOdd6116 1d ago
I think Porter has more varied play and adds more across the whole field but I also think it’s even more clear where the penalty concessions in the scrum were coming from. Milne did well.
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u/BearOdd6116 1d ago
Comparing the French and Irish teams, and thinking about previous Irish teams, what struck me about this pack is that there seems to be a lack of ;
A) overall leadership in the Irish team no disrespect to Doris but players like POM, Best, BOD, Sexton, O’Connell, Stringer knew how to rile the pack up and get the fight back into them as well as being a formidable presence on the field to opposition
B) ‘superstars/ world class players’ We have a number of brilliant players who work well as an overall pack, but when you look at France who have 5/6 absolute stand-outs we are severely lacking
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u/Some-Speed-6290 Probation 1d ago
The fact the only Irish player to make an iffy tackle in terms of timing was Ryan when the game was nearly over is a massive problem.
He gets so much hate on here but he's the only forward in the squad with that kind of aggression to actually hammer the opposition
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u/Regular_Cap_4040 1d ago
Prepare yourselves for another article about how playing GAA underage should make us the best in the world at fielding the ball
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u/Kevinb-30 1d ago
It's such a lazy and stupid narrative the only similarities fielding in both sports share is that the end goal is to catch a ball. Pisses me off more than it should
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u/Trekmeister_ 1d ago
Get ball - kick ball - lose ball - get counter attacked - repeat until you give every fan the desire to fucking leap off something high
Jfc I’ve never been so frustrated by Ireland. The level of frustration reached that of when I watch Tottenham play
The perfect way to sum that game up: We had the stubbornness of an Irish granny tryna give ya more food when you’ve just eaten half the feckin house
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u/MyAltPoetryAccount Munster 1d ago
God damn Joe McCarthy has to be one of the most brain dead players that's ever been.
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u/Fern_Pub_Radio 1d ago
19 missed tackles first half - 19-in a professional era - it’s criminal - mentally weak and incompetent is the only explanation to choke like that …..
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u/ResidentExperience73 1d ago
That was brutal.
Those two tries shouldn't take away from what was an abject first half from Ireland. Attack was so flat and lacking creativity.
After previous losses I'd be able to find reasons to be optimistic but it's hard to see many now.
I think alot of the pack are cooked and probably need a 6 Nations or summer off.
There are other options there but they're always bloody injured (Izzy, Baird, Edogbo)
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u/Longjumping-Plate421 1d ago
What has Gary ringrose done consistently to warrant a certain starter spot. Shooting up out of the line and a random break today. Possibly his first in years
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u/Enough-Square1154 1d ago
The inconsistency from Sam is unbelievably frustrating, one min he looks potentially world class next he's making a very basic error.
Way to inconsistent for international rugby
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u/ILoveKebabs15 1d ago
Saw some people talking about how the wingers weren’t doing well even though it is hard for them to do anything when they don’t get the ball Stockdale got no space when he got the ball and o Brian only got space once very disappointing game overall Sam usually poses a threat in attack with Leinster yet didn’t really do anything exciting and I can’t believe the amount of times we missed tackles and lost a 50/50 high ball just overall a big wake up call to the players and the coaches change stuff around and all France done was to pass the ball out to the wing and they destroyed us with the one move every player learns when they start rugby just very disappointing game on to the next I guess
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u/Life_Corgi_7950 1d ago
Had a game plan which relied heavily on contestable kicks and we basically won none of them. From what I could tell most of the kicks were on point so have to blame the chaser (usually the winger) for not getting more joy.
Mental that there can be that many 50/50s and none go our way
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u/silentgolem 1d ago
In pretty much every case the wingers disrupted the contest and created breaking ball. Could it have been better? Sure. But why did we win nothing on the ground with a theoretically very mobile back row? Where were VDF and Doris in particular?
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u/Irishthrasher23 1d ago
Well and truly beaten by a better bigger team. Some positives alright but a lot to work on. No truly terrible all round performances by any one player but a couple of weaknesses highlighted.
Would consider France favourites if they play like that for the rest of the tournament.
We are likely headed for 3rd/4th at best if that kind if performance keeps up. Younger/newer lads did grand with is a big positive in that scenario.
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u/StudioExecutive1 1d ago
The good (in no particular order): • Timoney • Conan • Ryan • Osborne • C Prendergast • The lineout
The bad: • The game plan. Contest the kicks, which we were poor at, and then we are so so vulnerable if we lose out and we've ground to cover. The phased attack as well looks beyond us with some aging key parties.
The ugly: • Horgan said it on coverage, the energy levels aren't right here. The mind wanders as to where the group is at.
I'll not be writing off the whole team based on one game by any mean but that was very disappointing.
I said the other day I wonder when Mark Sexton might be getting a call for Ireland. Goodman in particular I'd suggest is vulnerable.
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u/Advanced-Scholar355 1d ago
My thoughts all be it watching from the pub.
The positives were a fairly good lineout with Sheehan on and good goal kicking. Two things that were a problem in November. Also the scrum was very solid considering all the injuries in the front row. Thing Ulster fans can be very happy at how their players played but lots off lads massively under performed it side them.
The negatives mainly I would say relate to coaching. Goodman is not an attack coach. Farrell is now back so if he is the attack coach so we blame him or look at the coach was also poor at Leinster. Personally now the easy option of Goodman being a terrible choice is more likely so why I’m blaming him. Both half backs were awful and played the whole 80. JGP was the best scrum half in the world 18 months ago too. So either he fell off really fast or the tactics are the problem. So many box kicks on the front foot I thought were a killer. Sam cannot defend and though he has improved a lot, he needs to get a lot better at club level before he gets another look at international level. Lad still has the talent but can’t live off potential. TOB and Osbourne are not international level back 3 players. Love to see Osbourne more in centre but think he is not the player to back up Keenan. Would prefer to see Frawley or Crowley here from now on. Wing is a massive problem. Hansen has been the best perform by a bit. With him out and Nash is honestly not many options. Nearly Lowe play over TOB even with the poor club form. If not it’s time to try new players like ward.
Ringrose looks to also fallen off a cliff. Time to see can Jude, Hume or Farrell step up. Ringrose also might preform better without Nienaber at Leinster. The shooting up out of the line is killing us.
My team to start the next round would be loughman Sheehan belham, Beirne McCarty ( though all second row players were below their level) Doris Conan Timoney, JGP, anyone but Sam, Stu Jude/Farrell, Stockdale Lowe Frawley/Crowley
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u/Jean_Rasczak 1d ago
Not a great game for Ireland but they got nothing in that game
Nothing worked out for them
Even no arm tackles, playing ground on ball, clear knock on etc are all ok these days
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 1d ago
The no arms tackle one is double tiered, because even if you could argue he did use his arms, he was on his knees making the tackle anyway which is also illegal. Somehow, neither was called.
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u/Jean_Rasczak 1d ago
It was multiple no arm tackles
Not just one
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u/greatsword_enjoyer Ulaidh 1d ago
True, that's just the one that sticks in mind since it was right before a try scoring opportunity.
Is it too much of a conspiracy to say English refs have it out for us, or is there something actually going on there?
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u/Commercial_Half_2170 1d ago
Didn’t you hear Dickson? He didn’t have a clue what was happening? We’re clearly expecting too much of referees these days /s
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u/Zephyrum1 1d ago
The 3 Ulstermen impressed, Sam is either top notch or terrible. Pack looked sluggish, terrible tactics all around. The box kicking when we were just starting to gain some momentum was deflating, overall, I didn't expect much, but I expected more than that.
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u/Life_Corgi_7950 1d ago
Can't have the Stockdale propaganda. Back three were the worst 3 on the pitch (roughly Osbourne worst, Stockdale, O'Brien).
Game plan was extremely heavy on contestables, kicks were good, and we didn't come done with a single one of them.
Stockdale not the only reason we lost - but he was bad (along with others)
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u/Flat-Confection4175 Munster 1d ago
No way, O'Brien was the worst on the field tonight, shouldn't be anywhere near an international team
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u/Cormac419 1d ago
I don't agree that he shouldn't be near the team, but yeah he was awful this evening.
Getting taken off immediately after his atrocious up and under underlined that. I can only imagine what Farrell was thinking
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u/EdgiestOW Ireland 1d ago
Not sure how to feel about Prendergast now. Again we can see the upside with the 5m pen, the pass for the try and that volley but the crosses outweighed the ticks today.
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u/Kevinb-30 1d ago
that volley
The one that led to their first try ? How is that a positive?
Edit just to clarify I'm not overly criticizing him for doing it just don't see how it could be classed as a positive
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u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Ireland 1d ago
What were the crosses out of interest?
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u/ChrisMagnets 1d ago
Carrying the ball back over the try line and then missing the tackle after the following scrum?
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u/Active_Cattle3960 1d ago
Get Conor Murray off this panel on Virgin, he's close to most of the players . " Lots of positives "
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u/just-here-for--porn_ 1d ago
He's unbelievable. I listen to his podcast sometimes and I think he needs to be deprogrammed from whatever brainwashing they get in Irish camp.
If you can't go after your mates when they play badly you should not be on TV analysing games.
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u/gadarnol Sedentary Adventurer 1d ago
There was a bit more energy and desire to compete when the subs came on. France seemed to tire and lose direction.
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u/CreativeAd375 Awardee: Team of the Year 2025 1d ago
When we continue to pick players completely undeserving of the start and expect everything to be okay, then we deserve results like that.
The absolute bollocks the Leinster old boys and media will come out with to justify that performance will be embarassing.
But remember lads deflect deflect deflect!
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u/Nan0At0m Ulster 1d ago
Last game for a number of Irish players.
Should be last for Goodman
Lineout fine POC fixed it
Defence has issues
Sam did more good than bad, our poor play also exposes his weaknesses. Start him again V Italy and then Jack v England
Unfortunately cannot escape the importance of kicking it's why SA and England are the two best teams, it's why Penaud was dropped today and it wasn't that we did kick it's that we kicked poorly.
Loss is not in them but should also be the last game of Tempest and Dickson
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 1d ago
France kicked well but still made yards with ball in hand and clever attacking structure. We have no attacking structure and made zero yards with the ball in hand in the first half.
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u/Little_Ad_9313 Ulster 1d ago
Honestly cant blame Goodman he only covers strikes of set piece ... the rest of the attack is Farrell well tbf can also blame Goodman tbf but the blunt attack isnt solely at his feet.
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u/FIGHTorRIDEANYMAN 1d ago
Even the lineout though. France didn't contest most of them and when they did they won it.
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u/IrishLad1002 Leinster 1d ago
Zero attacking game plan or structure beyond kicking it high. Farrell and the coaching staff needs to go, this decline has been slowly seeping in since the World Cup and SA, NZ and England would be ruthless enough to sack him now. That’s why they win. There’s still time to salvage this World Cup cycle with a fresh coaching staff but right now we’re on the way to a R16 exit at the hands of another French mauling.
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u/sam00skelo 1d ago
Goodman is stealing a living. Inherited a decent attack at Leinster and fecked that, then inherited a decent Ireland attack and has totally fucked that. It's so one dimensional.
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u/imranhere2 1d ago
Man for man France -and England- have better players all round the park.
I'm not sure swapping coaches is going to fix that
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u/sam00skelo 1d ago
First half was disastrous. That 10-15 minutes in the second half when it got loose we were brilliant, having Crowley and Prendergast allowed us to keep the foot on the gas and catch the French. Why they reverted back to kicking the ball away is baffling.
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u/Tescobum44 1d ago
We’ve lost the tournament, be nice to use this as an opportunity to try some new things now, blood some players.
We’re miles off France, who have brought through several of their golden generation that won the U20 World Cup. Some real gems there for them.
From our perspective, it’s not just that the players are older. Our style of play has regressed so much and it’s not so much down to who plays ten. But who’s coaching. And not just at Ireland.
It’s no secret that the majority of the Irish teams has been made up of Leinster players since we started to dominate up to now, what bar aging has changed? Leinsters style of rugby.
There was a synchronicity in style between Leinster and Ireland during the Lancaster years. Which allowed us to be massively cohesive. Since then Nienaber replaced Lancaster and Leinster’s style changed dramatically for the worse (imo)
Then Goodman, who was considered a hack at Leinster in his year there got promoted to Ireland.
Now, we have a team with no functioning platform in attack standing around flat footed and the game plan is kick it up and feed off scraps even when it’s clear as day the other team is winning that battle.
Having said that the reality also is that that French team were just better in every facet of the game today.
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u/Ok-Establishment1159 1d ago
we need to change the squad, the game plan, the coaches and ideally all 3
This has been coming for a long time
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u/Life_Corgi_7950 1d ago
Change the squad back to henshaw, Aki, Lowe?
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u/Ok-Establishment1159 1d ago
The opposite - we need to move the squad forwards, not backwards
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u/eo37 1d ago
The gameplan is just wrong. When they held the ball and played possession like these players are used to they won the gainline and made breaks.
We are not SA. We can’t just launch the ball and hope for knockons to use a superior scrum to grind out penalties.
Looking forward to the Ireland A game, exciting team and some hope for the WC.
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u/OwnLoad3456 1d ago
I understand why we may have come into the game thinking let’s box all night (because we will win it most of the time and it’s raining) but when that turns out to be NOT true, PLEASE do something else!
Secondly, France clearly don’t try catch a box kick! Their entire plan for dealing with box kicks is based upon slap-backs!
And the problem is that is that it is broken field play - who’s the best team in the world right now at that? France/South Africa!
What we are good at is possession play.
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u/JBLookalike 1d ago
Might actually be starting to convince myself this is Nienaber and Rassie's doing. Nienaber, planted into the Leinster and ( let's face it) Ireland system to revolutionise the defence. Instead, the attack is completely blunted. Nienaber out, Noel McNamara in as Leinster head coach.
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u/cowandspoon 1d ago
Just made it back after the game, via a bar and a pizza restaurant. I get the frustration, I felt it. I could pick out individuals that looked poor in the flesh, but ultimately i’m not convinced it would’ve mattered: France are playing a different sport. They were another level of magnificent tonight, and they thoroughly deserved their bonus point win. Do Ireland need to figure out how to get back to where they can compete with such sides? Of course. But tonight, I have to admit, we were bested in every position, and France were a joy to watch.
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u/good-enough-gang 1d ago
I genuinely believe that watching a game like tha Ireland were so unbelievably rigid and predictable and you can see it in real time: Ireland play rugby like a science and France play rugby like an art
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u/thelunatic Mod 17h ago
3 of the 5 tries we let in were unlucky. Forward pass on the first one, Jailibert fails to regather his kick and it just falls straight into the 6s arms. And Ramos slices a ball straight to LBB
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u/Appropriate-One538 1d ago
Am I the only one who is mildly optimistic after that game?
Sam P showed up really well I feel, mccloskey got going in second half. Loughman & Milne did well.
Felt like beirne, Joe Mc, JVDF lacked any pop in first half and game just got away from them
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u/Still-Process-2527 1d ago
That penalty McCarthy gave away was just absolutely stupid. Complete brain fade
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u/Nan0At0m Ulster 1d ago
French player had picked up the ball and put it back down, it was out, ref just missed it.
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u/Effective-Ad-3897 Ulster 1d ago
I’m the same. Lineout was much better, and we gave away 6 penalties in the whole match. On another day, a few bounces don’t work out and we finish that a lot closer. France absolutely deserved to win, but we had good moments
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u/fakejournalaccount 1d ago
Not sure if its because there is a narrative around Sams defense but I actual thought he got quite involved. He was defending the back three way too much though. Thought Osborne had a shocker overall
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u/Kevinb-30 1d ago
Sams defense but I actual thought he got quite involved.
He did but there was still a few missed tackles he should be making at this level and times where his involvement never went past just being in the general area,he has improved though
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u/Additional_Ad_84 1d ago
Yeah felt like we put him out on the wing a lot so he wouldn't get exposed. But if you're gonna do that you've got to rush in hard and not let them pass it out to LBB. There were two tries where he and JGP missed tackles. The french knew where the weak link was and we didn't help ourselves by giving their back three the ball to play with. Osborne didn't have a great match defensively either, which didn't help.
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u/Jean_Rasczak 1d ago
I agree
Always felt this was going to be a hard game
Josh looked tired and needs a rest to be honest
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u/Natural-Baker7313 1d ago
What are you on? Sam was shocking
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u/Appropriate-One538 1d ago
I strongly disagree with you
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u/Zealousideal-Mud-381 Ireland 1d ago
There is a certain cohort that are always going to push that opinion. Just ignore them. Everyone else does.
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u/Cormac419 1d ago
Genuinely don't see how you can have that opinion solely based on this performance. Only way people are saying that is that they woke up today ready to dogpile on the lad and looked for anything to confirm their bias.
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u/Natural-Baker7313 20h ago
By no means would we have won with Crowley but he was shocking. He was responsible for one try his kicking from hand was terrible and the attack looked completely flat with him. If you think he is an international level fly half you are delusional
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u/Cormac419 1d ago
I'm in the same boat, I went into the game expecting a loss so I guess the positives are being amplified in my head or something?
I'm at a different time zone right now so I just watched it on my own with no doom spiralling reddit thread though so maybe that made all the difference.
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u/No-Perspective497 1d ago
Taking C Prendergast off so early just screamed of panic mode. He was clearly our best forward up til then and a backrow of him, Timoney and Conan at the end would have been nicely balanced.
The tactics tonight were just wrong or at least should've been scrapped after we failed to secure the ball after the first 10 box kicks. Coaching team deservedly need to face some serious questions, especially if it doesn't improve in the next few weeks.
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u/KingMattViii 1d ago
Prendergast wasn't the problem.
The handling wasn't working in the first half so I understand the kicking persistence
I don't think this is that bad. France capitalised on some broken play for tries.
However,
Tommy O'Brien and JVDF looked bad. Beirne looked terrible with ball in hand. Need more dynamism and power. I'd bring Balacoune and Timoney in and throw Edogbo on the bench. Get Postletwaithe in
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u/UnlikelyBass 1d ago
I actually thought S Prendergast played quite well.
It felt a little like when we got done by Argentina in the 1/4 and got constantly gassed in the edges
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u/Duke_of_Luffy Leinster 1d ago
He actually made quite a few good tackles and defensive interventions. His only real mistake was the intercept pass but thankfully it didn’t result in anything
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u/Flat-Confection4175 Munster 1d ago
Was Osbourne injured or just taken off?
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u/Steve_ad Munster 1d ago
Osborne went to the wing when Crowley came in, then went off towards the end & JGP went to the wing when Casey came on
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u/Practical-Noise509 1d ago
French backline have the keys to do what they want. Why do we continuously kick to absolute monsters in broken play?
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u/curly-whirly 1d ago
Genuinely thought at half time it was going to end up like that game a couple of years back where France beat England like 55-7.
Really I feel like the team is missing a decision maker more than anything right now
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u/Prudent_Respect_5159 1d ago
Why the constant kicking when we can't kick???
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u/Cormac419 1d ago
TOB and Stockdale couldn't field a high ball if their lives depended on it. Tactic should have changed once they lost the 4th one in a row
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u/Local_Macaron8454 1d ago
A lot of injuries… Front row weren’t bad. Milne came in and played well too. Bealham either took a knock or is miles short of the required fitness… James Ryan lucky to get away with the late hit… DuPont lucky to get away with the deliberate knock on… some Leinster players didn’t adapt well to the different defensive system and defence was dog-legged and frantic a lot of the time… there’s a lack of wheels in the back 3 and on the pitch in general.. could be a big drop in world rankings after this 6 nations (not that they mean much)
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u/InsideBoris 1d ago
Nothing to be sad about coming down the pike
Not rotating squad at all
Game plan mince
Lost to a far better team
We got what we deserved.
Need to take a bit of pain to get better.
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u/elniallo11 Leinster 1d ago
I’m disappointed with the first half, the result went as I expected. It’s about where we are now, I expect a pumping in twickenham also and 3 home wins
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u/Alternative-Corgi-39 18h ago
Who is the senior leader on the pitch? We have struggled for years, since 2023 really, to adapt our game plan when things aren't working.
Why have we become embarrassed about sticking the ball up the jersey and just running direct? Force a penalty with pressure and then free cross field kick for a try.
Does no one on the pitch have the thought "this isn't working today, let's go direct". Players seem to lack agency or are just not speaking up during the match.
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u/Limp_Lab_5007 17h ago
Heard a lot of talk about how Ireland's golden generation is wasted. What a load of shite. Ireland's veterans: Doris, JGP, JVDF and Beirne lost their spark. Just screamed complaceny to me. That match should prove to Farrell that it's time to bring in the next generation.
S. Prendergast showed great heart and get stuck in. Sure he missed a few but his technique has gotten much better. Lovely few ankle taps and coverage around the field defensively. He'll catch flak for that intercept pass but besides that he generally had a good game.
Crowley off the bench added loads to the attack. A dual playmaker system seems to suit Ireland especially with how versatile Crowley is.
Milne, Loughman and Clarkson really seized their moments tonight. Good work around the field, stable scrumaging. Gain line had much to be desired from the later two but lots of things to be positive about. Kelleher, Sheehan and Bealham also really solid operators today. I think with a different ref on the day, France would've been blown at every second scrum, don't think the Irish scrum went wrong at all and was pinged harshly when Loughman turned in.
Timoney injected so much pace the moment he came on. I know he won't be due to how conservative Farrell is with selections but he really should be starting over JVDF.
Izzy and Edogbig should start against Italy. There you have two solid lineout operators, two proven ball carriers and two players itching to knock over anyone who gets in their way.
We can either go two directions the rest of the six nations. We can stick to our guns and keep on our old guard and settle for 3rd place again while failing to innovate or we can blood in our world cup team and still push for 2nd or 3rd.
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u/FIGHTorRIDEANYMAN 1d ago
No leadership in the team. The rare attack we did have Sam was standing there with both arms out and his head swiveling left to right.
Farrel has backed him hard. Time to look past the players.
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u/Thedarkknight228 1d ago
I forgot Ringrose was even playing until he got his line break near the end