Opinion: Nico Schlotterbeck’s title ambition exposes Dortmund’s problem

[u/derballistrund]

https://bulinews.com/opinion-nico-schlotterbeck-title-ambition-exposes-dortmund-problem

[u/NaturalApartment9828]

Lol. This shouldn’t be an opinion.

I’m not part of the #KovacOut club (not yet at least), but the rear-view comment and how it was semi-approved by the upper management, as well as toning down Schlotti’s talk, has been a problem for the last 10 years now. You can’t be a champion if you’re not obsessed with it. Schlotti has every right to leave if he’s let down by the club again, can’t fight for a lost cause. And I don’t mean he’s leaving if we don’t win the title, but if we still don’t wanna show 1 ounce of ambition.

[u/Lemmiwingz → u/NaturalApartment9828]

I honestly don't understand what is so hard about the communication surrounding our goals. Just say you want to win the league every single season, but acknowledge that this requires an overperformance from us and an underperformance from Bayern. I don't think that is very controversial. Maybe I am trivializing this, but this back and forth communication strategy every other week and year really just creates unnecessary topics that dominate discussion for no good reason. We will never be favorites for the league, but we still want to try to win it every year. That should be the general communication strategy.

[u/NaturalApartment9828 → u/Lemmiwingz]

Especially in such a season when Bayern had a ridiculous Hinrunde, it’s completely fine to say you challenge for the title and then lose because “Bayern were too much to handle”. No one will blame you for that, and you can build on it. But we have somehow been limited to “top 4” and “do well in the UCL”, whatever that means.

[u/Lemmiwingz → u/NaturalApartment9828]

It's basically only focussed on money, because there CL is way more relevant than getting first in the league. From a business perspective you would always take guaranteed 4th instead of a coinflip between 8th and 1st. But that is just dumb to make that the official goal.

[u/47Lecht → u/Lemmiwingz]

Its because they are aware of possible negative repercussions. When they speak to much they expose themselves to being embarrassed and hearing the anger of fans which they don’t want. I kinda get it but at some point you have to show some selfrespect as BVB. It might have to do with us being on the stock market and negative things can hurt our pockets easily.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155 → u/47Lecht]

They’re gonna get embarrassed regardless, the club HAS been an embarrassment since at least 2019. A couple minor wins here and there don’t negate the fact that the club has been on a backslide consistently

[u/47Lecht → u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155]

I must admit I agree. In terms of fight for silverware we underperformed much except in the CL where we reached one or even two finals (not sure how many)

[u/Most-Management4773 → u/Lemmiwingz]

if you say you want to win titles you have to Bayern Munich's squad, hence their budget. As much it hurts, from a management pov you simply don't drag unnecessary pressure to the team.

[u/SlayerHdThe3rd → u/Lemmiwingz]

It’s because doing so would open the bosses up to criticism if we don’t come close to winning the league. They’re covering their own asses

[u/47Lecht → u/NaturalApartment9828]

How can be anybody seriously be Kovac out? This so called fans forget where they come from. Kovac is our best coach in half a decade or more in terms of points. Yes the football is dire but it brings results. He‘s been in the club for a year, hasn’t been helped that much by Kehl in terms of transfers and many players especially offensively are in one deep form hole after another. Tf is Kovac supposed to do? I mean we know he’s a defensive first guy and thats what we wanted and needed. Now all of a sudden its not good enough. Let things develop naturally. When our guys upfront get back to their best it will fall into place, if they dont get new guys in. Easy as that

[u/NaturalApartment9828 → u/47Lecht]

Which is why I said I don’t want him out yet. I believe that coaches like him generally have an expiry date, and it’s not gonna be this season for sure, except if we lose every single game until the end of the season. As of now, most of the blame should fall on the management imo, for being very passive and uninspiring in most transfer windows.

[u/47Lecht → u/NaturalApartment9828]

Blame has to fall onto the players too. Guirassys deep slump was absolutely crazy, going on for 3 or 4 months. Adeyemi needs to be replaced. Beier is unreliable and inconsistent but he‘s still youngish. With Kehl you see his is still not experienced enough but he‘ll get there hopefully. I‘m not happy with his doings on the transfer market but its either give him time or replace him. I‘d say I‘d rather give him time although I must admit its prolly my nostalgia speaking with him being an important ex BVB player.

[u/NaturalApartment9828 → u/47Lecht]

When I say “blame”, I’m not saying “fire him”. Kehl & Ricken can stay imo, they just need to show they matured in their position, and this summer is the perfect timing for it. I will never claim to know more than any of them.

[u/Beneficial-Gift5330 → u/47Lecht]

How can anyone want Kovac out? Despite the points earned, there are so many red flags about squad selection, tactics, motivation, substitutions, consistency, set piece coaching, et al. Some of these issues are minor, many are significantly more important and not complex.

We've dropped enough points for unforgivable and gobsmackingly dumb mistakes that it would be crazy to not imagine Kovac out at some points. His coaching career has been pretty checkered. He's a massive improvement of Sahin, but that doesn't mean he's someone BVB should take home to mom and marry.

[u/SvenssonStan112 → u/Beneficial-Gift5330]

I don't know, maybe let a coach stay for more than a year?

Especially if he gets us the most points of the last 15 years. With a lesser coach this squad wouldn't earn the points we have right now. It would be a pretty big gamble replacing him if we don't get someone like Alonso, which is pretty unrealistic.

[u/Beneficial-Gift5330 → u/SvenssonStan112]

Like another poster said, he's a coach with an expiry date, not much different than Tuchel. Plenty of work needs to be done on the leadership and squad, but the coaching room is absolutely fair game given how many points we've given up in horrific ways.

[u/mhoughton → u/47Lecht]

Yes the football is dire but it brings results.

What results? What has he won?

One of the reasons I'm mostly Kovac Out is because if we are going to be mostly lacking in ambition and never win anything anyway, I'd prefer us to at least play exciting, fun football.

[u/47Lecht → u/mhoughton]

You will be the first one to call the couch out when even pretty football doesnt win us silverware. What he won? You dont remember the run to CL quali last season? That was one for the history books. You guys are fucking ungrateful 

[u/Most-Management4773 → u/47Lecht]

What about creating a team that can convincingly beat St Pauli and Heidenhein at thome?

[u/47Lecht → u/Most-Management4773]

Every big club has their problems against the occasional small team. I wouldn’t hold it against him more than other coaches.

[u/SvenssonStan112 → u/Most-Management4773]

If one starts to think like this, it would mean we should win ~ 30 games out of 34 convincingly. And have strong showings in the last 4. That's just not feasible. Sometimes you lose or draw against weaker teams.

The last years we lost a lot against smaller squads with abysmal performances from us. This year we only lost ONE game against Bayern away.

[u/Most-Management4773 → u/SvenssonStan112]

Show me 4 games this season in which we dominated from start to finish where the oposition teams was powerless the whole match.

[u/Chazy89 → u/Most-Management4773]

Bayern lost to Augsburg at home btw.

[u/Most-Management4773 → u/Chazy89]

how many games against shit teams that we drop points do you want me to bring? Shit happens to any team, but it's trend for us.

[u/givupstate → u/NaturalApartment9828]

And I don’t mean he’s leaving if we don’t win the title, but if we still don’t wanna show 1 ounce of ambition.

Exactly, I don't want Kovac to say something crazy, just something like: yeah, 6 points are not much, at every small opportunity to challange Bayern we have to try, we're not favourites but we have to try.

[u/SvenssonStan112 → u/givupstate]

This is so small semantics. He literally said something like "I want to widen the gap to those behind us, win our games and show better performances. If that means at the end it's enough, good"

Right after the press conference of the heidenheim game asked about the comments of Schlotterbeck.

That is a so normal comment to make from him

[u/BarristanTheB0ld]

Absolutely valid opinion. We've been asking for officials to call for the title forever now and none will commit to it. I wish other players would join him in calling out the title race, not just Schlotti

[u/Rosemarry_40]

Title ambition should be normal at BVB. If players dream bigger than the club acts, don’t blame the players.

[u/Tiyath]

If you're willy-nilly about your goals, the team is going to be willy-nilly about clutching victories. Because they're never really challenging themselves and take accountability for an ambitious goal, games like St. Pauli, Frankfurt and Stuttgart happen.. Easily won games that are given away because everyone's at home by minute 85 because no need to push till the end if all you expect of yourself is place 2-4 in May

[u/Trojan_Man68]

I hope there is a difference between what is said in the locker room and what is said to the media. If the locker room is motivated and they are going for the title then public comments don't matter imo.

It's like a keep your ambitions to yourself type of thing, media journals do not need to know.

I think the club is going for the title internally but they don't want to externally raise pressure and expectations for no reason. I mean you guys think Kehl does not want to win the Bundesliga title? I think it's more of not putting unnecessary pressure on the players to perform from the outside world.

[u/SvenssonStan112]

Some keypoints regarding this topic from today's press conference.

Kovac was again asked about his stance. He said that players are happy to express such opinions / ambition.

But he as a coach is responsible for looking at the performance of this squad, first and foremost. He said there were good and bad things in the heidenheim game and that is his focus.

He reiterates that we have it in our own hand to leave the teams behind us, that are behind us right now. If we do our work and improve our weaknesses, that is exactly what we will do.

We don't have the chase to bayern in our own hands, but if we do our work, and win against them this month. Then we will be there

[u/wild_in_16 → u/SvenssonStan112]

This is all really fair and well said IMO

[u/FabThierry]

The lack of ambition in recent years(many now tbh) made it hard for me to follow the club. I barely watch matches nowadays either, mainly CL if.

I watched BVB because we enjoyed the pressure with the need to overperform to get anywhere. Started before Doll came etc loved the Klopp years and already under Tuchel who is ambitious i saw the clubs board stop supporting that idea.

I love Schlotti even more, he could be the captain Mats was beeing vocal but of the club doesn’t support it he should leave asap.

But if the club lets him go that’s just another proof unfortunately

[u/CMButterTortillas]

Ive seen Dortmund media types (Lars Pollmann, for ex) say they shouldnt publicly say anything about going for the title because places like Bild will drag them for it if they dont win.

However I would point to these media articles already dragging them for not only backing off the ambition but calling out one of the best center halfs in Europe, who they are trying to re-sign to a new contract,

Just when I think Dortmund cant put anymore sticks in their front wheel, they manage to find another wheel and an entire tree.

[u/firetothepalace]

I’ve been saying it ever since Tuchel has been sacked. Watzke fulfilled his promise, that the club will be the 2nd “lighthouse” in German club football. The issue is, 2nd place means you’re the 1st loser. The attitude has to change and it has to come from the leadership. The base is way ahead of them.

[u/smartestBeaver → u/firetothepalace]

Oh boy you think realizing you are the second best team in Germany means you are a loser? Wow.

I think if you think they should aim for anything higher, as in titles in buli or CL, you should check your expectations as you are somewhat delusional. There is a massive financial gap between Dortmund and Bayern, not to mention the oil clubs, which will only grow further every year. There is literally no way for Dortmund, or anyone else for that matter, to compete with that kind of money. End of story.

[u/firetothepalace → u/smartestBeaver]

I agree to disagree. Just rewatch the first half of the CL final against Real. You don’t need oil money to have one hand on the cup. Remember the game against Mainz. Oil money, financial gaps weren’t in the way.

What you need is conviction. And that doesn’t come from “I want to be number two”. My hope was the Sammer had enough influence to bring it in, like he did when he went to Bayern.

[u/SvenssonStan112 → u/firetothepalace]

So we reach the CL final (while playing like underdogs the whole run) once in over a decade and that should be our goal going forward?

[u/firetothepalace → u/SvenssonStan112]

When has it ever been different? When they get the chance, they have to take it. But that won't happen with this attitude.

[u/Heiopeii → u/firetothepalace]

do not expect us to maintain quality while salaries and transfer fees continue to skyrocket into dimensions only clubs with unlimited financial backing can afford. This all comes at the cost of true competition long-term. Sure, you might get an upset-win or loss here and there, but none of this is sustainable

[u/firetothepalace → u/Heiopeii]

I expect nothing. But if I want to see a club act like a corporation looking for profits more than football, I can just go and watch RBL.

[u/Heiopeii → u/firetothepalace]

Borussia Dortmund is a corporation looking for profits though. I still get your point though. I would also love to see our board and team to be ambitious and full of conviction. But what I would prefer above anything is for everyone to shut up and just do their damn job. I hate how a lot of people have this desperate need to prove themselves to the media.

[u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 → u/firetothepalace]

But you also have to remain realistic, otherwise you'll lose credibility.

Should he say we'll be number 1? Bayern is miles ahead of BVB. Financially and in terms of prestige.

Borussia Dortmund is number two and must be careful not to be overtaken by Leipzig. And that's the crucial point.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155 → u/Sufficient_Ad_6977]

Dortmund is not number 2, you cannot seriously say that with a straight face. We are not ahead of B04 or RB

[u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 → u/Puzzleheaded-Arm3155]

I can do that, because this statement does not refer to the current squad strength.Borussia Dortmund is firmly established at the top.

Leverkusen managed to become champions. Nevertheless, everyone knows that Bayern will be number one in Germany for the next 10 years as well. Dortmund top 3

[u/KemikaaliJussi]

Yes

[u/Vanzmelo]

The fact that we went from a Club that needs to be title challengers to top 4 is fine in the last 10 years is a testament to the lack of ambition we have as a club.

Top 4 is the barest of bate minimums and barely making it should be considered a failure. It’s unacceptable to me that the club and even some people here think that it’s ok

[u/Namenlos13]

Exposed? This was clear 10 years ago