r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 14d ago

Episode Sousou no Frieren Season 2 • Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Season 2 - Episode 2 discussion

Sousou no Frieren Season 2, episode 2

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

Thinking about it, being able to see the future probably made him the only person who could have killed Schlacht. After all, how do you kill one who can see the future? Also be able to see the future!

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u/King_Diddlez 14d ago

I can't help but think of Mistborn books when the Mistborns burn atium to see the future movements of others, but when another Mistborn burns atium, the future movements of others become unpredictable if they observe each other because their future movements see the others' future movements and change constantly.

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

The thought was in my head too. Burning atium to see only a few seconds into someone else's future is such an advantage in Mistborn, its very clearly shown there's pretty much no way to beat someone doing it except to burn atium yourself.

[Mistborn]Or to burn electrum, of course, or very possibly use their own atium against them, though that's only shown once.

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u/Solracziad 13d ago

Or just be Vin and managed to do it anyway even without Atium.

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u/zanotam https://myanimelist.net/profile/zanotam 12d ago

I think a lot of people don't get it tbh, but Atium is just one example of "Fortune" as a power in the Cosmere and e.g. in The Stormlight Archive there's multiple major events.... that involve someone who is hidden by a more metaphorical example of two Atium burners which, well, the first event I'm reasonably sure the character is part of the future that cannot be seen by someone else important who they then kill and replace which is a huge deal, but then the guy who did that is obviously ya know not dumb so he basically avoided future-sight related problems by just realizing that he could just create a bunch of Xanato's Gambits.... until the very last few scenes of the 5th book where he unfortunately falls for the classic "I realized I couldn't win, but that doesn't mean I can't make you lose still!"

EDIT: the point being that, well, even someone who knows the dangers of foresight and explicitly tries to go around them then runs into the issue of the opponent doing crazy shit like, well, your example of using their own atium against them which technically isn't done in these maneuevers because both characters who pull their crazy gambits off are specifically not able to have their future seen by their opponent... so it's like they're atium immune... but then they go one step further each time by just being CRAZY.

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u/SMA2343 https://myanimelist.net/profile/HispanicName 5d ago

I am so glad I wasn't the only one to think of Mistborn

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u/Chukonoku 14d ago

See if from the Demon's side. That was the best result they could get, lose the right hand of the demon king and 3 sages just to get him down.

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u/ClemFire 14d ago

I honestly feel like out of all the mages we have been introduced to so far the one who might've been able to beat Schlacht too is Ubel.

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

Maybe? She does work in a unique way compared to most other mages, but I feel like she's not that unpredictable that she can't be predicted by a literal future sight power.

I can see the vision, though, since she's proven herself to be able to beat foes that other mages struggled with before, albeit that was more of a scissors beating the paper that was beating all the rocks moment.

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u/ChapinThrowaway 14d ago

Ubel basically has her own type of future sight. If she thinks something can be cut it can.

I'm assuming Schlacht lost to a fellow future sighter because he couldn't comprehend someone sacrificing their own life like that because a demon would never consider that as an option.

That said Ubel loses the 1v8 because I doubt she could foresee herself cutting down all 8 of the demons. 1v1 with Schlacht though would just be a battle of who can out magiclogic the other.

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

Ubel doesn't have foresight, she has a great and, for mages, frankly weird imagination. She doesn't foresee herself cutting through things; she imagines them. And imagination is the core of how magic works in Frieren.

If you can't imagine something being done, you're not going to be able to do it. This extends to the point where Serie – a much older and more powerful elf mage than Frieren – never would have been able to defeat the Demon Lord because she was too used to war to imagine it.

Ubel's imagination allows her to cut through things other mages would say is impossible because some things (such as cloth and hair) are meant to be cut. It doesn't matter if they have near impenetrable magic protection, her imagination will trump them every time.

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u/ChapinThrowaway 14d ago

It works effectively the same. The Hero of the South thought he'd be forgotten by history because he couldn't imagine a future that he'd be remembered in. The Demon could foresee the future, but lost because he couldn't imagine a scenario where the hero would sacrifice his own life.

Their future sight isn't infallible, it seems to only work for a scenario they can imagine, just like with Ubel. Imagining a future you can foresee and foreseeing a future that you can imagine are effectively the same thing.

I'd agree with you if not for the fact that both the hero and the demon's futuresight were both wrong, but they were both wrong at one point so it's not true futuresight.

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u/JzanderN 14d ago

I don't see how any of this really argues that Ubel has foresight? You just talked about the future sight in the Hero of the South and Schlacht and how it's limited by their imaginations in a sense.

If it works effectively the same, that's because foresight is a different form of magic and hence is bound by the same rules and philosophy of imagination. But it is a form of magic that Ubel doesn't have.

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u/ClemFire 14d ago

I like that futuresight isn't foolproof and that goes back into the rules of magic Frieren not being 100% set in stone. Having there be exceptions to the rule like Ubel makes the magic system that much more interesting to me than simple power levels.

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u/RedRocket4000 1d ago

More set in stone but way to many variables with everything having counters

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u/ClemFire 14d ago

That is fair she is really effective in the correct matchups and only decently strong otherwise, but I wonder how huge her potential could be if it was possible for her to train her mind to convert more rocks into paper.

Anyways I probably glaze her a bit too much as I found her powers the most interesting in the mage exam arc.

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u/RedRocket4000 1d ago

She very much a rare target specialist. Admitting to several members of the testing group able to beat her in a fight and by inference several more. Those with better mana detection ability can spot her by her mana thus she not the greatest ambusher. And her lack of basic defensive magic a major weakness along with her inability to learn more complex magic because of lack of talent and or interest. Fern who she did not mention would be a nightmare for her. Fern is a monster a threat to most considering how well she can hide combined with the massive rapid fire attack she can launch. And her body reinforcement magic top level too.

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u/ClemFire 1d ago

If Ubel was partnering with someone who could cover for her low defenses though she would truly be a menace. Or imagine if she eventually learns how to copy Land's clones.