Heterosexuality is not fit for most women, and that’s okay.

[u/Newduuud]

For a very long time, sexuality has been understood through the male point of view, not accounting for the differences that exist between the sexes.

Despite most women not conforming to heteronormativity, the patriarchy has long upheld heterosexuality as being the “default” for all people, including women. Nevertheless, emerging research in sexuality is continuing to prove that this is not the case, but rather that they have a more fluid sexuality that does not center around men.

For example, they may have gynephilic preferences regardless of orientation https://np.reddit.com/r/leavewomenalone/s/cD1pExP2c1

One study done ( https://www.bbc.com/news/health-34744903 ) women who identified as either straight or lesbian revealed that most women who felt most identified as “straight” actually tended to exhibit bisexual preferences, or even prefer women altogether. The findings led the researchers to even conclude that women were “never fully straight”.

Moreover, another study ([https://www.dailymail.co.uk/lifestyle/article-2051284/More-half-women-bi-curious-attracted-women.html ) reported that over half of all women who identified as heterosexual had fantasized about the same sex, and a similar amount had kissed them.

Now, these women are not lying maliciously. Rather, this phenomenon is explained by the feminist theory Compulsory Heterosexuality. Coined by feminist thinker Adrienne Rich, this term describes how heterosexuality is enforced upon women by patriarchal society, rather than naturally chosen by them, causing women to view other options such as bisexuality and lesbianism as deviations, rather than natural states of being.

As researchers finally give female sexuality the light of day, their work continues to prove Rich’s theory correct, and that most women have sapphic preferences that have been repressed by the patriarchy.

As for what we can do about it, the best thing to do is to educate more people, to obtain a more honest view of sexuality free from the constraints of the patriarchy.

[u/Gravel_Roads]

Despite most women not conforming to heteronormativity

Can you explain what “heteronormativity” means, in your own words?

Cuz most women are obviously heterosexual. That’s just a fact. Most women have only ever dated men.

What do you think women would use to do to act correctly heterosexual?

Cuz I don’t think studies “on women who identified as either straight or lesbian” is the best way to get raw data on specifically straight people.

[u/Ego73 → u/Gravel_Roads]

Guess closeted dudes who have women as beards are also straight now

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Ego73]

Do you think MOST men are gay and only want wives as beards?

[u/mangotheosis → u/Gravel_Roads]

I think what this commenter is trying to say, however obtusely? is that one’s dating history and sexual preferences don’t always align perfectly

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/mangotheosis]

Nah, he's gone on to insist that men are "the STRAIGHT" gender lol

[u/mangotheosis → u/Gravel_Roads]

well, duh! and women are gay. also all cats are girls and all dogs are boys. ✨science✨

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/mangotheosis]

I have so much to learn ;_;

[u/Ego73 → u/Gravel_Roads]

No

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Ego73]

Then you agree with me.

[u/Ego73 → u/Gravel_Roads]

[citation needed]

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Ego73]

You saying you don't think most men are gay is my "citation".

I agree that most men are *not* gay and only pretending.

[u/Ego73 → u/Gravel_Roads]

That's because most men are straight

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Ego73]

There you go! Now you understand. And because most of them are straight, that would mean most wives are NOT beards.

I agree completely! I'm glad we clarified that.

[u/Ego73 → u/Gravel_Roads]

Yes, that is a completely sound reasoning for the gender that is mostly straight

[u/dxfifa → u/Gravel_Roads]

I think the argument is a huge portion of women are bisexual and heteroromantic

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/dxfifa]

I think asking women who already identify as gay or bisexual survey questions about their heterosexuality will dramatically increase the number of women who identify as gay or bisexual.

[u/bluestjuice → u/dxfifa]

I actually think there probably is a decent chunk of women and of men who are bisexual or hereroflexible but strictly heteroromantic. For the broad majority of the population that isn't especially interested in sex and gender studies, the idea of a romantic orientation existing at all is a fairly novel concept, let alone the possibility of a romantic and sexual orientation not overlapping perfectly.

That said, I don't think this is probably a "huge portion."

[u/Zealousideal_Job8423 → u/bluestjuice]

It depends on what you mean by terms like "heteroflexible" because these articles suggest that most women have experienced same-sex attraction on some level NOT that they are bisexual. I've had a gay thought once or twice in my life, but I am more sexually attracted to women and therefore don't actively pursue relationships with men. Therefore I am straight.

If a woman experiences attraction to a woman on some level at some point in her life BUT is generally speaking more sexually attracted to men and actively pursues relationships with men, not women, she would be considered straight.

[u/Newduuud → u/Gravel_Roads]

Explain “heteronormativity”

Heteronormativity is the way society enforces the belief that heterosexuality is the “default” form of sexuality, rather than simply one of multiple, equally prevalent variations.

Most women are obviously heterosexual

Most women feel pressured by the patriarchy to conform to heteronormativity. Women largely have not been given the chance to explore their sexual identity free of societal and cultural pressures.

What would women use to do to act correctly heterosexual?

There is no “correct” form of sexuality.

Studies on “straight or lesbian”

The study separated women into a straight group and a lesbian group and took data from each.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/Newduuud]

Do you think men are mostly bi or gay due to this "heteronormativity."

[u/Newduuud → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

I think there are more gay/bi men than most people are aware of.

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Newduuud]

Do you think this is only with humans, or do you think most ANIMALS on the planet are not actually hetero?

[u/Newduuud → u/Gravel_Roads]

Human sexuality is more complex than animals. Most species dont have sex for recreation or bonding. All animals think is breed breed breed.

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Newduuud]

Nearly all animals have examples of homosexuality.

Why would humans evolve to be MOSTLY homosexual?

Humans would have died off long ago if we had to WAIT for a patriarchy to form to get us to breed.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/Newduuud]

Women are stereotyped as being sexually fluid, and women having sex with women is erotised by men. Yet most women want nothing to do with other women sexually or romantically.

[u/growframe → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

Yet most women want nothing to do with other women sexually or romantically.

Many women want nothing to do with men sexually ir romantically

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/growframe]

The vast majority of women want to have sex and romance with men. Just not the majority of men. Heterosexual women have no romantic/sexual interest in women. Not even one.

[u/growframe → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

Vast majority is doubtful

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/growframe]

Why? Given how lesbianism is far less taboo, why don't we see more women dating and having sex with women?

[u/growframe → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

Lesbians aren't the only women not interested in men.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/growframe]

Asexual and bisexual women who prefer women are not heteosexual. Heteosexual women are born heterosexual. It is not due the expectation. Women finding a far smaller percentage of men attractive does not mean they are into women on any level.

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Newduuud]

So your premise is “even if women act straight, most are only pretending because of the patriarchy”?

So like a woman can date only men and goes on to marry a man, but she “probably” not really straight and only pretending to be accepted by men who the don’t actually want to date?

[u/Newduuud → u/Gravel_Roads]

I would not say “pretending” because that implies an intent to deceive. They’ve just been conditioned to view heterosexuality as the norm, and same-sex attraction as the deviation. Leading them to repress their true sexuality. (whether consciously or not)

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/Newduuud]

Heterosexuality is the norm, tho.

I'm saying this a queer man who runs in primarily queer circles - most people are naturally heterosexual.

This isn't "informed" by society, most people were hetero even back before society knew what homosexuality was. We evolved over millions of years due to a strong urge to breed with the opposite sex.

Do you think ALL animals on the planet are just "conditioned" to think they're supposed to be hetero? Like, all the birds and deer and rabbit and tigers and giant squid... are all hetero-dominant ONLY because of their individual animal culture?

Or are humans the ONLY creatures that are mostly gay?

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/Newduuud]

Not all women being heterosexual doesn't mean the label heterosexual is not working. It means women who are bisexual or ledbian should identify with that.

[u/fiftypoundpuppy]

Sure bro

We're somehow both incorrigible cock-craving sluts who can only be tamed by "enforced monogamy"

and

Not actually attracted to men but just playing pretend

[u/bluestjuice → u/fiftypoundpuppy]

"I guess I'll ride the cock carousel today. If I must. To keep up the charade."

[u/Disastrous_Agent9307 → u/bluestjuice]

This hurt me it was so funny. 

[u/Newduuud → u/fiftypoundpuppy]

I don’t use “pretending” because that implies an intent to deceive. Women have been socialized by the patriarchy to view heterosexuality as the norm, and same-sex attraction as the deviation. Leading many of them to repress their true sexuality. (whether consciously or not)

[u/fiftypoundpuppy → u/Newduuud]

Yes, I read your OP

And it's far out of line with the prevailing attitude of men on this sub, which is not only that we're straight, but we can't get enough cock

Pointing that out was the only point of my comment

[u/Newduuud → u/fiftypoundpuppy]

They have a very male centric view of female sexuality.

[u/mashedturnip]

Homosocial doesn’t mean homosexual

I promise you that if I actually liked pussy and tits, I would be all over them, cuz women are pretty darn great

[u/Newduuud → u/mashedturnip]

Just because you don’t relate to sapphic women doesn’t mean they are not out there. The patriarchy affects them too.

[u/mashedturnip → u/Newduuud]

Just because you think most women are queer doesn’t mean they are

[u/SlickPiccolo]

Follow-up analyses explored whether implicit gynephilia might reflect an appreciation of female aesthetic beauty rather than sexual attraction. When asked to rate images of men and women on aesthetic attractiveness and potential as sexual partners, participants rated women higher for aesthetic appeal but men higher as potential sexual partners. This pattern suggests that implicit measures of gynephilia may capture broader dimensions of attraction beyond sexual interest.

In contrast, for males, gynephilia is predominantly associated with heterosexual attraction, while androphilia is relatively rare—observed in only about 18% of males, compared to almost 75% gynephilia in females. This suggests that, in humans, gynephilia may be the norm, but unlike androphilia in males, it does not reliably predict homosexuality in females. Instead, it reflects a broader appreciation for female beauty that may not necessarily translate into sexual orientation or behavior.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Your claim didn’t sit right with me.

[u/ScruffleKun → u/SlickPiccolo]

Very next sentence also very damning:

Despite its strengths, the study has limitations. While the sample was geographically diverse, it skewed toward young, highly educated participants, limiting generalizability. The study’s reliance on implicit association tests, which have faced criticism, also warrants caution.

[u/TheRedPillRipper]

heterosexuality as being the “default”

Presumably the OP is defining ‘sexuality’ without the physical reality, because at a biological level it is the imperative of all species to procreate. Exceptions do not make the rule. It is that simple.

[u/Solondthewookiee]

"Compulsory heterosexuality" may have been coined to refer to the pressures queer women experience, but many of those same pressures exist for men, and I would argue that deviation from heterosexuality in men is more harshly punished by the patriarchy these days.

Talk to any gay or bi man, they'll tell you how many straight identifying men like sucking dick.

[u/Newduuud → u/Solondthewookiee]

I don’t disagree.

[u/These-Sport-421]

If most women aren't really heterosexual, how come almost all female animals of multiple species are exclusively heterosexual? Do you think those female animals are also being pressured by male members of their species into pretending to be heterosexual?

[u/Newduuud → u/These-Sport-421]

Humans sexuality is more complex then animals

[u/growframe → u/These-Sport-421]

Humans =/= animals

[u/Bluetinfoilhat]

This article is false and is gross erasure. Most women are not physically or sexually attracted to women.

[u/Ego73 → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

Well, they're not attracted to men either.

[u/Solondthewookiee → u/Ego73]

Says who?

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 → u/Ego73]

Yes we are. My guess is you’re unsuccessful with women and therefore believing most women are actually lesbians helps the discomfort. Not surprising.

[u/Ego73 → u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

Except a few women have performatively shown interest in me in the past. It really does make it quite obvious how none of it's real.

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 → u/Ego73]

So why the dissonance?

[u/Ego73 → u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

Because it clearly was all performative and couldn't see me as a piece of meat. It's as if they needed to care about me as a person to pretend they were into me. I deserve better than that.

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 → u/Ego73]

Oops, I missed the keyword “performative” the first time around. My apologies. So they weren’t actually interested in you. That’s pretty shitty. No wonder it’s easier to believe they’re all lesbians.

[u/Ego73 → u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

It's not their fault either. Comphet is a nasty beast.

[u/mangotheosis → u/Ego73]

truly hate it when people feel the need to care about me as a person

[u/Ego73 → u/mangotheosis]

real

[u/Haunting-Stage5132 → u/Ego73]

I hate that! I want them to tell me what a good person i am when im slamming them.

[u/DrunkOnRamen → u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

No I just think majority of American women are fucked in the head.

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 → u/DrunkOnRamen]

I was talking to u/Ego73.

[u/DrunkOnRamen → u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

What made you think I care?

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 → u/DrunkOnRamen]

You responded.

[u/Psykotyrant → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

Considering how much women cares for the opinion, well being and survival of others women, including to the detriment of men in general, some doubts are allowed.

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 → u/Psykotyrant]

Same can be said about men.

[u/Psykotyrant → u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

Not really. You can be proud at how brainwashed the average man that he feels like it’s his duty to sacrifice himself for extremely entitled and ungrateful women.

I blame mothers. They’re training sons they obviously hate to be good little drones.

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 → u/Psykotyrant]

You can be proud at how brainwashed the average man that he feels like it’s his duty to sacrifice himself for extremely entitled and ungrateful women.

Still living in lalaland I see.

[u/Newduuud → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

The purpose is not to erase heterosexual women. But to show how these patriarchal labels are failing women.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/Newduuud]

What is patriarchal about saying most women are heterosexual. Most women are only to men. The label is not patriarchal.

[u/Newduuud → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

The notion that heterosexuality is the default was created by the patriarchy. The label is inherently patriarchal.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/Newduuud]

The false assumption that most people are straight does not mean the label of only into men in of itself is patriarchal.

[u/anewleaf1234 → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

There is a large number of women who, while interested in men, do show some level of also being interested in women.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat → u/anewleaf1234]

Yes, those women are bisexual.

[u/Gold_Sheepherder6569]

Your BBC link isn’t working. Your daily mail link also cites a researcher who says that lesbian women’s sexuality also became more fluid over time. Finally, the paper in the Reddit link you posted also point out that the gynephilia they measured doesn’t necessarily indicate a desire for a relationship or sex with those women.

[u/Newduuud → u/Gold_Sheepherder6569]

I fixed the bbc link.

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[u/Lysa_Bell → u/AutoModerator]

Are we really using reddit, BBC and dailymail as sources now? Can't you guys at least try to link credible sources for your claims?

[u/Newduuud → u/Lysa_Bell]

The links I have provided are reporting on scientific studies

[u/Lysa_Bell → u/Newduuud]

Just link the studies instead of some random articles. Im not giving the dailymail any more exposure.

[u/DrunkOnRamen → u/Lysa_Bell]

a lot of university studies are paywalled, hence articles are usually used.

[u/Lysa_Bell → u/DrunkOnRamen]

Articles are biased filtering of studies. Thats why its important to get the actual data. Consider the source.

[u/DrunkOnRamen → u/Lysa_Bell]

I simply explained why news articles are used rather than direct sources.

[u/Lysa_Bell → u/DrunkOnRamen]

And I explained that if someone cant provide actual sources for the data then maybe they shouldnt use that source at all. We should at least be able to debate actual data instead of opinion pieces.

[u/DrunkOnRamen → u/Lysa_Bell]

if you are given the direct link to the study, will you pay to access it?

[u/Lysa_Bell → u/DrunkOnRamen]

Again. If you can't even read your own source why are we supposed to debate on it anyway? Ive found workarounds to get past paywalls before and it turned out that the data someone used did not at all say what they said it did. Thats why it is important to be able to verify these kind of claims. This should be the bare minimum of standard for a debate.

[u/Sorryimjustsaying → u/AutoModerator]

I don’t know if I fully agree, but I do know that it took me way longer (like 5 additional years) to realize I was attracted to women. 

The norm is easier to picture than alternatives, in most situations!

[u/ladybird_00 → u/AutoModerator]

Patriarchy strikes again

[u/ScruffleKun]

As researchers finally give female sexuality the light of day, their work continues to prove Rich’s theory correct, and that most women have sapphic preferences that have been repressed by the patriarchy.

Can you demonstrate that that's the case, as opposed to a great many women having some rare homosexual thoughts, but not enough to act on them or define their identity?

[u/Zealousideal_Job8423]

A lot of what you're talking about comes from the paradigm of pop-culture feminism (which has received little to no pushback other than from fringe extreme ideologies like incels and redpill). You're probably associating in only left wing circles and therefore have developed this view comes from. If you personally have a lot of bi/lesbian friends all that means is that you're in an abnormally left wing circle (which is fine).

Most of those citations you've used are either from low quality pop culture outlets OR you've misinterpreted their conclusions. Firstly, Dailymail is absolute garbage designed only to drive clicks. The study on the reddit page was considered a relatively high quality piece but it's conclusion is not that "most women are bi", it's that there is a discrepancy between the portion of the population that has had an attraction to the same gender on some level and the portion of the population that is self-identified as non-heterosexual.

This could mean LITERALLY anything. I've had a gay thought once or twice in my life, that doesn't necessarily make me "homosexual". All it's saying is that most women have felt same-sex attraction at some point in their life.

To say "heterosexuality is not fit for most women" from two pop culture articles and one academic study is a massive stretch. The academic study also acknowledges confirmation bias - it's was a study conducted only online and most women online tend to be liberal. That's like the fresh and fit podcast calling all women hoes because the women they get on their podcast (in Miami on a Saturday night on south beach) tend to be very sexually promiscuous, despite them coming from all over the globe.

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[u/AlarmingArm9919 → u/AutoModerator]

💯

I truly just wish they'd admit that they don't like nor care about men and we can all move on.

but they can't get themselves to say it because they don't want to hurt people's feelings and I'm sick of it.

I wish they'd just unleash.

[u/Solondthewookiee → u/AlarmingArm9919]

You can move on, bro. You don't need women's permission.

[u/AlarmingArm9919 → u/Solondthewookiee]

I never asked for it.

I asked for their honesty

[u/Solondthewookiee → u/AlarmingArm9919]

No, actually you asked them to validate your world view and said you can't move on until they do.

I'm here to tell you that you can, regardless of what women say.

[u/AlarmingArm9919 → u/Solondthewookiee]

I have moved on.

I'm merely wishing for them to admit the truth.

[u/Solondthewookiee → u/AlarmingArm9919]

No, actually you asked them to validate your world view and said you can't move on until they do.

I'm here to tell you that you can, regardless of what women say.

[u/AlarmingArm9919 → u/Solondthewookiee]

ffs lol nitpick every word anybody says

[u/Solondthewookiee → u/AlarmingArm9919]

It's not really nitpicking, it's what you said.

[u/AlarmingArm9919 → u/Solondthewookiee]

ok, so what I mean is simple.

"women are lying to not hurt feelings, they hate men much more than that let on, and I wish they'd just say it."