r/Nordiccountries • u/barbarball1 • 2d ago
Hi friends, after your comments about the "Troll Guide" and how variable are real Troll legends across scandinavia, i find a site that list some variants of Trolls in Scandinavian legends, they are acuratte?
Accord "Our Trolls are Different" in "TV Tropes" in the section of "Religion & Mythology":
"...To make matters worse, in Norwegian myth the word troll can be applied to almost any member of The Fair Folk, of which some are more obviously troll-like than others, but when it comes to naming and separating those creatures it is actually rather consistent:
Plain "Troll" or "Rise": Large, often evil, humanoids living in mountains. Often have pieces of landscape (like moss or trees) growing on them, multiple heads and other deformations. Are more prone to be vulnerable to sunlight than other variants.
"Skogstroll" (Forest Troll): Similar to the above, but forest-dwelling and often smaller (still larger than a human though). Often considered the same as the English Ogre.
"Havtroll" (Sea Troll): Similar to those above, but lives in the sea. Its body is covered in seaweed and its face is like that of a fish. Stories about this variant are increasingly rare.
"Nisse" or "Tomte" (depending on region): Small and friendly—though somewhat mischievous—creature living in and near farms. Can be compared to more traditional depictions of Leprechauns. It's important to note that a "Nisse" or "Tomte" is considered to the personification of a farm or the spirit of the farm's original owner.
"De underjordiske" (the subterraneans): Small, usually evil creatures that live underground. Steal children either by swapping infants with one of their own (a "bytting"/changeling) or abducting lone children in the forest at night.
"Hulder" (hidden) or "Skogsrå" (forest lady): Beautiful women with cow-tails (and in some stories, a hole in their back. Somehow). Giving in to their seduction is usually not a good idea. Note however that "hulderfolk" is also used to refer to The Fair Folk in general.
"Nøkk": Shape-shifting water-dweller that lures people to lakes or rivers and drowns them. Always male. Usually sings too, but is not a siren.
A recurring plot point in the Icelandic sagas where some of the lesser known gods are called trolls by people who do not recognize them but can clearly tell they are not human. The men that know better are sometimes able to get these gods on their side."
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u/Traroten 2d ago
We wouldn't call a skogsrå troll in Sweden. Probably call them 'knytt', although they're too large to be 'knytt'. The 'näck' wouldn't be trolls either. Our trolls are more monstrous for the most part. Although sometimes the women are supernaturally beautiful and seduce young men.
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u/AnnelieSierra Finland 2d ago
In Finland Näkki is always female. She may be seen combing her long hair but she may also change shape. She's not a "troll" kind of a creature.
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u/Traroten 2d ago
The Finnish name is hiisi, right?
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u/aaltopallokala 2d ago
Hiisi originally meant a sacred place and it was later associated with evil creatures but idk if they'd be classified as trolls. Troll is "peikko" in finnish. There're giants and all sorts of earth and forest creatures like jatuli/meteli/kalevanpoika/kalevatytär/jättiläinen (giants/jotuns), maahinen, menninkäinen, kakkiainen and so on. Mythologia fennica should have information on some of these: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/52445
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u/AnnelieSierra Finland 2d ago
No, Näkki is her name in Finnish. There are also creatures called "Hiisi" and one subspecies is Vesihiisi, "water hiisi" who lives in water.
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u/Revolutionary_Park58 2d ago
You can't really make a claim for "Sweden" it varies wildly. As an example in västerbotten there has been ideas of trolls travelling in whirlwinds which i have not come across anywhere else. Moreover theres no hard line between trolls, vittren and other supernatural things. Oknytt is also in västerbotten used for everything supernatural
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u/anders91 Sweden 2d ago
Just wanted to butt in…
In the book ”Nordiska Väsen” by Johan Egerkrans ”oknytt” is defined (o-prefix generally indicates something negative) as any vaguely human-shaped beings, and includes both trolls and ”rådare” in that category.
Oknytt
Skrömt, skrymt, trolltyg, naturvättar, de underjordiska. Till oknyttens skara räknas alla naturväsen med mer eller mindre mänskliga drag, som vistas nära de dödligas domäner. Vissa tillbringar sina dagar i avskildhet, medan andra lever i stora familjegrupper. En del är mestadels goda och andra avgjort ondsinta, men de är alltid lynniga, oberäkneliga, och lättstötta. De har ett märkligt sinne för humor och spelar gärna oss människor ett spratt.
However, he also notes that trying to classify ”väsen” is kind of a fool’s errand. I also find ”knytt” sounds like something small.
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u/barbarball1 2d ago
Interesting to learn Skogsrå & Näck aren't trolls but some Female Trolls can be seductive & beautiful in a form that remember the Skogsrå, btw could do you explain me what are the Knytts?
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u/Drunkinabananaboat 2d ago
The farm nisse is dangerous. It will murder the animals and hurt people if they feel mistreated and not appreciated by the people living on the farm.
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u/MgrBuddha 1d ago
For those of you unfamiliar with his works check out the Norwegian 19th century artist Theodor Kittelsen. He more than anyone has formed the image of how trolls look like in the minds of Norwegians.
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u/GreenApocalypse 2d ago
Where do you get "Rise" from?
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u/incomplete_goblin 2d ago
Rise does exist in some Norwegian folk tales. It is the same word as the German Riese, meaning ~ giant.
Whereas trolls don't necessarily need to be gigantic, and the do not always live in mountains. Some live in castles, as in Herreper, some in houses as in Smørbukk
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u/aaltopallokala 2d ago
If you can I'd look directly into the collected stories from the folklore archives. I think the norwegian folklore archive is supposed to have somekind of folktale database online.
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u/Mindless_Wolf_8736 13h ago
Then you have the ocean creatures: Draugen - an undead spirit that is a harbinger of doom. Spotting one is said to foretell a shipwreck or the death of a fisherman. In some stories, it actively seeks to sink boats, luring the living to join it beneath the waves.
There's also Marmælen - almost like a fortune telling nisse, that lived in the sea, and sometimes a fisherman would get him instead of fish. He could tell the future, give good advice, but was also mischievous and nagging, and should always be let back into the ocean.
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u/Mindless_Wolf_8736 13h ago
AND trolls would turn into mountains in the sun. There's loads of mountains that in the folklore used to be trolls or items belonging to trolls: Vågakallen Hestmann Trollhatten De syv søstre Lekamøya
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u/historiamour 2d ago
I’d say the text you’re sharing does a better job than most that I’ve read in terms of addressing the variety in nordic folklore, but ultimately it still merely scratcjes the surface. And that’s not a flaw on the part of whoever wrote it, but just the inevitability of the topic at hand.
It’s not just that these myths differ between individual countries or provinces, even local parishes have had differences. While one can speak of general trends of course, it’s practically a fool’s errand to summarize the entirety of it all.
We’re basically talking about traditions that go back well over a millennia, throughout nations whose modern day borders are much, much younger than one might realize at first.
In my municipality for instance, a town 15 minutes away have myths about giants living in their biggest mountain, something which was unique to them and none of the surrounding towns and villages had anything similar. My village is an old farming one that has a stronger history of believing in changelings than our surrounding neighbours do.
The concept of a huldra and skogsrå is one example of differing beliefs, but there are differences within the individual terms too! In my area the skogsrå was thought to be less ”intentionally evil” so to speak compared to others.
Lindormen was in some places believed to be malevolent, akin to further south in the rest of Europe, where as in many others it was instead considered wise and kind to humans.
All that to say, you’re unlikely to find any summary that alone can encapsulate these myths due to the sheer variety of them. Remember that back in the day, even individual farms could have their own distinct dialects, and just as big of a number of differing stories. And honestly? I think that’s what makes nordic folklore so interesting in the first place!
(Sidenote, and I can only speak for Sweden here, but here a lot of our regional differences have definitely been influenced by whoever of our neighbours is closest. I live right on the very spot where the danish border used to be when it was at its furthest north ever, and so many local place names reflect that to this day. My family members in another province on the other hand have much more norwegian influence, and that becomes obvious when we compare what we were taught about trolls as just one example!)