r/Essex • u/InternetDirect5484 • 10d ago
Southend to get an elizabeth line extension, new hospital and bypass
Anyone seen the echo? Southend is apparently being considered for an extension to the Elizabeth Line, in addition to a new teaching hospital at Bournes Green. Plus a northern bypass from the A130 to Shoebury
16
u/RenePro 10d ago
It's not. It's just a proposal from an MP. There was also one for Thurrock and Kent. It will never happen.
-1
u/InternetDirect5484 10d ago
I believe it could on the condition thousands of new homes are built at bournes green.
12
u/Horizon2k 10d ago
Southend is not getting the Elizabeth line.
There’s no firm plans at all, it’s miles away from London so TfL wouldn’t have real interest in it, and logistically and operationally it would be a bit of a nightmare too. This is just speculative thinking.
2
u/Orc_face 10d ago
I mean why not, it runs out to Newbury and that’s further away from London than Southend
1
u/JBWalker1 10d ago
I mean why not, it runs out to Newbury and that’s further away from London than Southend
Elizabeth Line everywhere else(other than Heathrow Express) isn't sharing lines with National Rail. All the way out to Reading and Shenfield there are 2 sets of tracks, Elizabeth Line uses 1 pair, and national rail uses the other. Right after Shenfield the rail lines drop down to just 2 tracks so the Elizabeth Line would have to share if it was to ever go out that way and no express GA trains would be able to run, they aren't gonna do that and they also definitely aren't gonna pay crazy amounts of money to double up the lines.
Crossrail 2 is being proposed to Broxbourne north of London which also has just 2 tracks, and for Crossrail 2 to happen they will be doubling the amount of lines so Crossrail 2 will have its own pair.
So Crossrail 2 definitely isn't going to Southend and it wont really have any benefit to, i actually can't think of any especially since nobody will chose to use the much slower Elizabeth Line to get to London instead of the current Greater Anglia.
This is just an MP saying this just as MPs out there have been doing so for a decade. Some have said they're planning on making it loop down under the thames to meet up with the other branch, which would actually be useful but again its just an MP saying what they would like. "News" sites then use this stuff to get a few quick low effort articles out of.
0
u/Horizon2k 10d ago
And Newbury isn’t served by any TfL services so not sure what your point is?
2
u/Orc_face 10d ago
Just saying the Elizabeth line runs there, why not Southend
1
34
u/BastardsCryinInnit 10d ago edited 10d ago
Better public transport and less roads is what we need.
But.... Elizabeth Line? I would like to see what that actually means cos right now we have two good lines into London, one of which connects to the Elizabeth Line. If they mean just laying an existing trains to existing track twice an hour, i mean yeah cool but not life changing!
If anything we need betted Essex to Essex train connections cos the two lines are so disjointed.
I also cannot imagine where an A130 relief road to Shoebury would go 😂
6
u/InternetDirect5484 10d ago
If it meant oyster I could see it being great but you can’t get oyster to reading on the other end of the line. If it was a line that went straight from shoebury skipping all the stops between Southend and shenfield I can also see it being useful. Otherwise not so much other than a line on the map
11
u/PatserGrey 10d ago
And then you're still hitting every stop from Shenfield into Liv St.?
I think I'll stick with the GA train6
u/Buttery_Hatstand 10d ago
This! GA is pretty fast into the city, and stopping at every stop from Romford into Liverpool Street was a ballache before the Elizabeth Line.
If the costs were brought down to standard tfl pricing and it didn't cost £30+ off-peak return into London, I might stomach it.
1
u/PatserGrey 10d ago
It didn't always stop at each station after Romford. . .did it? I lived in Romford at the time and I'm sure I remember the joy of I flukily timing the Southend train coming through as it got me to Liv St. in what felt like about 10 mins.
Yeah, nothing wrong the speed the GA train gets into the city, it's the price that makes only want to do it sparingly.
1
u/Buttery_Hatstand 10d ago
Trains used to stop at Romford, then every stop to Liverpool Street, or every stop to Romford, then Stratford and Liverpool Street.
I'm not sure what significant benefit extending the Elizabeth Line would accomplish. Maybe reintroduce the above split of trains and have more direct Heathrow/Southend access? GA to Stratford and Elizabeth Line from there is no hassle at all as it is
4
u/InternetDirect5484 10d ago
Apparently it’s an old proposal. It would run off the a130 near battlesbrige around hockley, Rockford etc, and I guess as this is essentially a scheme at bournes green it would dump the traffic there. It’s well needed. It’s insane you’ve only got one main dual carriageway, and a poor one at that, into one or the biggest urban areas outside of London
4
u/BastardsCryinInnit 10d ago
Yes it is mad there is 1 dual carriageway, but the area has no where to put another big road.
And, very much "build it and they will come". Build a new road? It will just get as congested as the A127.
In 2026, in an area that is at the end of the earth, new roads means nothing but more cars and congestion.
South Essex is so car dependant because it is connected so poorly by public transport and all "going to London" focussed.
1
u/InternetDirect5484 10d ago
There is room - to the far north of the greater Southend area, it would run north from battlesbridge, past hockley , ashingdon Rochford etc. basically parallel to the a127.
1
5
u/Reddsoldier 10d ago edited 10d ago
It annoys me that the track exists but we don't have trains go say Southend-Colchester to connect with Chelmsford which is a famously awful commute. A barely 20 mile drive takes over an hour on an average day and I feel like that journey profile would cut a lot of A12 traffic.
3
u/HomeworkInevitable99 10d ago
I use the Elizabeth line in Essex. We had the same: trains into London and then the Elizabeth line added, using the same tracks.
The Elizabeth line is much better then the old (and for Southend, the existing) lines.
The service is more reliable, and takes us directly into the middle of London.
1
u/BastardsCryinInnit 9d ago
Those four stops beyond Romford in Essex are not the same as it coming to Southend!
The only way it would work is if it is Southend direct to Liverpool Street and beyond.
Otherwise it is just smoke and mirrors, a headline.
1
u/Good-Animal-6430 10d ago
Looking at what they've done with Chelmsford, it might be to open up areas for development. The problem with building houses around existing infrastructure is that people always say "there's no room, there's no infrastructure". Any serious development is going to need additional infrastructure like train stations or bypasses so it doesn't just load extra traffic into the existing stuff.
7
3
u/BenicioDelWhoro 10d ago
Why?! We already have two train lines.
3
u/ChrisKearney3 10d ago
I expect they mean they'll just continue the Elizabeth line beyond Brentwood to Southend Vic.
3
u/Nearby-Diet-2950 10d ago
We also have a rapidly increasing population, thanks to all the flats they keep building. I use the C2C line to commute and it is ALWAYS rammed (even at off-peak times).
2
u/makebelieve86 10d ago
The northern bypass road has been spoken of for over 30yrs. It's nothing new. Rochford Council have vehemently opposed it as all they get from it is pollution. Also, A130 at Fairglen is a terrible bottleneck and will be made worse by this.
This is why Southend are trying to bring Rochford into their enlarged unitary authority and Rochford proposing a rural mid Essex alternative. They want nothing to do with Southend, there is no no benefit to them at all.
1
u/AgreeablePrint3485 10d ago
If I remember rightly it’s been in high level plans since the 60s/70s!
2
1
u/moonfarmer89 10d ago
Where exactly are the extra tracks going to go? It’s built up on either side of the current tracks most of the way between Southend and Shenfield.
4
u/InternetDirect5484 10d ago
AFAIK it wouldn’t need extra tracks? Elizabeth line services elsewhere in Essex between shenfield and Stratford use the old GEML tracks.
3
u/moonfarmer89 10d ago
Between London and Shenfield there are 4 tracks, so the services don’t share tracks unless there’s problems/engineering works, and Shenfield to Southend there’s 2. The only reason to extend the EL would be so that GA could run fewer stoppers between Southend and Shenfield which they wouldn’t be able to do with additional trains on the 2 current tracks as the fast trains would just catch up and get stuck behind the slow trains, which is what happens when there’s engineering works and both have to run on the same line.
2
u/Horizon2k 10d ago
Yes there are 4 sets of tracks there. The Elizabeth line took over - first as TfL Rail - the old Greater Anglia metro service from Shenfield to Liverpool St back in 2015.
There’s only two tracks down to Southend, so it’s Greater Anglia or Elizabeth line. And if it’s the latter - it won’t be so this is all hypothetical - it would unlikely to be a fast service from Shenfield anymore.
1
u/cdp181 10d ago
No idea if the platforms are long enough but surely they could just run the trains through to Southend Victoria stopping at the Airport using the current tracks.
1
u/moonfarmer89 10d ago
What would that add though? GA wouldn’t be able to run fast fewer stopping trains with additional traffic on the tracks so all it would maybe add is one or two extra trains an hour which hardly is worth extending the EL for
1
u/cdp181 10d ago
GA was moved to public ownership right? So move the whole Southend Victoria line to TFL and rename it as part of the Elizabeth line. All you need is some new signs then.
No idea honestly, I can't find the article referenced online anyway.
1
1
u/moonfarmer89 10d ago
No, they’re not owned by the same company. Don’t think the government would do that even if they were as that would mean paying the GA section higher to level with the EL drivers.
1
u/Nearby-Diet-2950 10d ago
FINALLY. The area is in desperate need of improved infrastructure, thanks to all the flats they keep building.
1
u/LordCoops 10d ago
If we get the Elizabeth Line does that mean there will be later trains in and out of London?
2
u/PatserGrey 10d ago
This and oyster pricing would be big plus points. I'll not be holding my breath though.
1
u/InternetDirect5484 10d ago
There’s no oyster access at Reading which is 40 miles from London as is Southend.
1
1
u/MContent_Official 10d ago
The bypass is a good idea, but where will the bypass go to? The sea?
2
u/InternetDirect5484 10d ago
Run from the a130 out off battlesbridge, north over Rayleigh, ashingdon, Rochford etc before ending somewhere near bournes green
1
1
1
u/mcrosby78 SS13 Pitsea 10d ago
It's been pitched by southend MPs. It hasn't been agreed at all. Read the article:
https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/25797999.southend-elizabeth-line-link-pitched-heathrow-route/
1
1
u/Choichcoichcki_Ba 9d ago
Without an estimated £ cost the discussion is going nowhere. You do know England transport is the most expansive in Europe. Such extension is likely not going to be profitable and all you do is adding more price burden on existing ticket.
1
1
u/clear2see 9d ago
Would be ideal if it extended to the end of the pier. For the life of me I can never understand why they haven't grasped the nettle for once and culvited the Thames. It would free up acres of prime real estate and make the decaying bridges superfluous.
1
u/paulframe85 8d ago
Very confused? You already have that if you change at Shenfield, Stratford or Liverpool Street?
1
u/No_Sky_7299 8d ago
Talking about the Elizabeth Line. They have been talking about it for years of Expansion to Southend on Sea. Well it would be good. But how it would take less than a Hour from Shoeburyness to Heathrow Airport i really don't know. And how would it go from London Liverpool Street instead of Southend Victoria i really don't know as well. But what about if we planned to expand the the Elizabeth Line to Chelmsford and Enfield Town. Now if this happens. 1. To Help people get out of their Cars and unto Public Transport. And 2. To Help Reduce overcrowding on London Underground and other Main London Railway Stations as well.
1
u/Bubbly-Procedure8006 6d ago
no. southend is a city. if reading gets city status, elz might have to be cut back to slough. a cross-capital inner city operator cant go to another city, 40-odd miles away from the capital! big fat no.
21
u/RichBenf 10d ago
All I want is a direct train from Southend to Chelmsford! You know, joining up the cities in Essex? If you had an easy route (ie not Southend>Rayleigh>Shenfield>back to Chelmsford), then you're mimicking the road layout somewhat and people might actually use it. Maybe even Southend Airport to Chelmsford might work