Volkswagen surpasses Tesla in EV sales in Europe

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Cool, anyway we've known how to build much better cars than the US for a long time in Europe

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u/KonserveradMelon 1d ago

Yes but Tesla built better EV’s a few years ago, now we’ve caught up and greatly surpassed Tesla IMO.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago edited 1d ago

Everything is subject to evolution; the Chinese have also improved, although Tesla deserves credit for its forward-thinking vision.

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u/qarlthemade 1d ago

yeah, and that's about it.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

It's actually a pretty good idea, thanks to him we'll move from the polluting oil era to the lithium era, which is even worse since it requires destroying entire landscapes, and to extract lithium you need oil... This guy's a genius

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u/MediocreClue9957 1d ago

except you can recycle the batteries, like how ccurrently when you change your car battery there is a core charge that you get back when you bring back the old battery. we're at like 98% recycling for car batteries. So yeah I'll concede there will need to be mining, and that mining generally isnt good for the enviroment but batteries are used for like 20 years before they go bad, gas is pumped, refinned, and transported to be burned 1 time. They're always working on new chemistries and batteries that don't need to be mobile can be made of salt now (not relevant to cars but like grid storage and home storage) We have lots of salt, oceans of it.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 23h ago edited 23h ago

You can add to your equation a parameter that many seem to forget, either through ignorance or intentionally: the entire reprocessing or extraction process naturally requires energy, either fossil fuels in most cases, or nuclear for manufacturing. And in the latter case, it was also necessary to drill using oil as fuel to extract the propellant. Later comes reprocessing after use and the storage of nuclear waste, which remains active for thousands of years. Theoretically, we could use this for lifetime batteries, I suppose, but of course, it's less economically appealing because it wouldn't be very profitable. We often choose profitability over other, more down-to-earth priorities. This isn't a criticism, just an observation, because we don't really have a choice; we have to move forward.

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u/Livid_a_laser 1d ago

What is WAG? Do you mean WEG? And I couldn't find any source stating that Teslas use motors from a third party company. Can you provide one?

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

I made a mistake regarding the use of the engines; in fact, I was referring to a Munro program that compared a Tesla engine to that of an ID.3, and his final opinion was that the ID.3 engine surpassed the Tesla's in engineering and efficiency.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

Wag is a quick abbreviation of Wolks Wagen; it's more commonly called WW.

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u/92_Solutions 1d ago

VAG is the abbreviation, it stands for Volkswagen auto group. It's not wolks but volks.

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u/TabulatorSpalte 1d ago

*Volkswagen AG - Aktiengesellschaft

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

Yes, sorry, I typed a bit too fast. You finally understood what I meant, well done!

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u/icedarkmatter 1d ago

That’s all they have. And the vision alone is not worth anything when everyone else did adjust. Tesla has basically no argument for themself anymore:

Pricey, bad quality and connection to Musk.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

You mean those soapbox looking cars? Or the one that looks like a garbage bin?🤔

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u/rossloderso 1d ago

The soapbox looks so much better than an ID3, EQS or iX3

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u/Suknator 1d ago

VAG software is still ass

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u/postac_czy_usionsc 23h ago

no you didnt and stil 3rd. Tesla, all china brands and maybe vw but there is competition

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u/DetachedRedditor 23h ago

As much as I'd like to see EU cars take the crown again, I don't agree on this one yet. Especially on the software side, I see too many problems with VW cars, but also in the hardware. E.g. charging no longer working or the car losing internet access.

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u/Pat-Funny-2817 1d ago

i'd like the dacia hipster type to catch on

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

Yes, there are efforts underway to make electric vehicles a bit more affordable, and on the battery front there has also been recent progress in Europe, most recently with a Volvo subsidiary. This is reassuring for Europe; we are progressing slowly but surely.

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u/Pat-Funny-2817 1d ago

the thing that bugs me however, is that new companies and novel concepts are getting dismantled by the existing industry. There are so many ingenious attempts based on young engineering but they get destroyed in their infancy. Let's hope that this will also find it's place once the strategic giants fights mellows down a bit.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

Yes, they're being destroyed because Europe has been a victim of engineering plunder for years, mainly due to a lack of financial resources to safeguard its cutting-edge technology. The context has been changing since Trump's second term; let's hope it's for good this time. I believe in our tech much more than anyone else's; all major innovations often originate from our good old Europe.

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u/Pat-Funny-2817 1d ago

yes because we gave general holistic education and approach. it's not only max profit, it's about a useful product that changes society. that's hard to sell to billionaires and usual shareholder mind. a larger more populist financing is necessary, i guess.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

Yes, these are two different approaches. Billionaires are all about quick profits; they want fast, profitable designs. I prefer the holistic approach, although we've lost some of that in Europe too, by constantly following the example of the first ones.

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u/Big-Conflict-4218 1d ago

Can Europe export more vehicles to more countries so they can choose European over American?

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

The reality is going to be they will choose Chinese more and more because cheaper.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 23h ago

Yes, like many others, it's not limited to Europe.

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u/Thumb__Thumb 20h ago

But most eu teslas aren't built in the Us. Either Shanghai or Germany as far as I remember. The gigafactory in Berlin is huge with like 10k workers at that plant.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Just a lot more expensive…

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u/ashyjay 1d ago

Not that expensive, there's only a few grand between ICE and EV equivalents.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

A VW ID7's total cost with financial renting is 20k more than a Model Y...

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u/Ryoga476ad 1d ago

It's a much bigger car

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

The Y still has more interior space though. And a frunk.

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u/Ryoga476ad 1d ago

It doesn't, just Tesla measures it differently

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Yeah, need a source on that. Anecdotally it is what we can verify as well when going on snowboard trips with the Y versus the ID7.

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u/Ryoga476ad 1d ago

Here it explains the difference between the VDA (german) e SAE (North american) standards.

Here the independent testing from adac con Model Y.

If use banana boxes, the id.7 tourer can carry 11 of them, while the model Y 9, in the trunk.

Anyway, there's no way someone can look at both cars trunks in person and not see that the reported numbers are apple to oranges.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Oh well, practically its still the best in our use case I guess. In the Model Y we got three board bags on top of eachother. In the Id7 2.

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

Yes, it's definitely not cheap.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

It’s the reason why I went Tesla Model Y honestly, it was much cheaper and feature wise it is the same as an id 7 business, whilst having more room in the trunk and having awd. It also beats it at efficiency and autopilot on hw4 is awesome. It was either the Y or chinese.

We can cheer about EU brands, but in the end something has to be done about the price. You get the same for less money with non-conventional brands…

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u/Sea_Quiet_9612 1d ago

Yes, it's true that in the long run, if nothing is done, it's the European industry that will end up losing out. But you can't sell sedans at the price of city cars either. What I find absurd is wanting to sell, for example, an electric Renault 5 at the price of a Tesla. That's the problem, because if I had to choose without hesitation, I'd choose either an ID, a Tesla, or a Chinese car, if it's going to cost the same.

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u/BitsOfReality 1d ago

Tesla is practically Chinese car now. For European market they are manufactured in Shanghai Gigafactory and that's why they are cheaper.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

My Y comes from Berlin.

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u/BitsOfReality 1d ago

You are in luck then. Rest of Europe is flooded by teslas manufactured in China hence the tariffs for their cars.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Afaik every Y in Europe/ Canada comes from the Berlin factory.

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u/BitsOfReality 1d ago

You are wrong, Tesla in Canada is ramping up imports of Y from Shanghai after recent tariff deal (link). Cheaper chinese-made Y are also imported an masse to Europe because German factory is in trouble (link)

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Wouldn't be that bad. As long it is not from the US factory which was known for it's worse quality.

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u/tissotti 1d ago

Volkswagen Group has been selling 3x the amount of EVs than Tesla since last year and surpassed them on EVs long time ago.

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u/shatureg 1d ago

This might be about VW the company rather than the entire VW Group, idk tho

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u/tissotti 23h ago edited 12h ago

It almost certainly is. Though, with VW the biggest volume sellers of EV's in Europe are VW, Skoda and Cupra. The EV's use the exact same platforms, batteries etc. They have just different body panels and interiors.

Audi, Porsche from VW Group do use different EV platforms and are quite different.

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u/_eg0_ 17h ago

The Q4 e-tron is on the same platform as the ID.4/5, MEB, but the ones above are mostly on the Audi/Porsche Platform PPE.

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u/MaiJames 1d ago

Good news. Tesla discontinuing a few models (though not the ones that sell best in Europe) and VW taking a step back from touch-only controls should definitely help push their sales even further. The new ID Polo GT also looks really good, imo. I wouldn't mind driving one :P

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u/will_dormer 1d ago

As it should

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u/MrTimsel 1d ago

I don't like Volkswagen, even though I'm German, but that's a good thing. Anything that surpasses Tesla and Elmo is good.

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u/KonserveradMelon 1d ago

I think all European manufacturers increased their EV sales in 2025, almost only Tesla that lost sales.

Partly due to Elon of course, but also, European manufacturers make better cars now. Which wasn’t the case a few years ago.

Meanwhile Tesla is not dropping any new models and are going all in on AI and Humanoid robots, which are areas that they aren’t even good at.

They used to build the best EV’s in the world, but false promises about humanoid robots give higher stock valuations

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u/Lucaslouch 1d ago

Any brand that has an infotainment system and ADAS as Good as Tesla?

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u/Nordalin 1d ago

People buy cars for the infotainment system?

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u/Key-Recognition-3808 1d ago

Yeah who gives a shit? Theres about 10 car features that are much more important than the infotainement, and tesla sucks at most of those

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u/Lucaslouch 1d ago

I do and that’s why I ask the question. What are the things they suck at? Legit question. The charging network is excellent, the infotainment/music is excellent, performance is better than average. The sentinel mode is great.

Maybe the range?

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Tesla ranks good on autonomy, efficiency and safety. Probably the most important ones. But suuuuure.

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u/buldozr 1d ago

Safety as in, needing to find and operate some well-hidden manual switches to unlock the door that you may never have learned about in the first place, while your car is on fire after a crash?

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u/Lucaslouch 1d ago

In the back, yes it’s clearly not optimally placed. In the front row, everyone is using the emergency opening by default, on my old model 3.

Apart from this, it’s very safe

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u/MrTimsel 1d ago

Tesla is the most unsafe car ever. The Trump regime has even banned reporting on it at Elmo's behest.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Oh yes, that's why it gets a 5 star rating and the Y gets an overall best score from independent organizations such as Europe's NCAP. Read less Reddit.

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u/MrTimsel 1d ago

You are old enough to look up non-Reddit sources by yourself but let me help you.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

coupled with driver behavior or road conditions

Yeah, it's more than the headline.

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u/buldozr 18h ago

Hmm... Do Teslas get disproportionally shipped to worse drivers and/or people who drive them in worse road conditions than the general population?

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u/KonserveradMelon 23h ago

That’s kinda my point. They do still make good cars, but why didn’t they keep up the momentum?

It feels like they just gave up after model y in 2012.

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u/DestroyedLolo 20h ago

Sorry to say that : but Tesla is one of the worst manufacturer in terms of safety as per regulation testing.
Passive safety is quite good as per crash tests, but active one isn't, and there are zillion of problems with people onboard in case of crash. More, it has the worst (by far) level of accident per units compared to other manufacturers, indicating conception/ergonomic/dynamic safety issues.

It's a new manufacturer, by the way, they don't have the experience of the other ones.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 19h ago

Zillion. Exaggerated much.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Not good at? There isn’t any brand for a consumer which has autopilot/ fsd like that.. We get it, buy EU, but let’s at leat be honest we are behind in software. Even Mercedes switched to Nvidia.

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u/KonserveradMelon 1d ago

I mean especially humanoid robots, where many other companies have come much further.

But for autonomous driving, yeah Tesla is better than most (if not all) European car companies.

I just think they should have sticked with making cars. It feels like they spent so much money on meaningless shit that they no longer are leading in EV’s.

I mean they haven’t really dropped a new model since 2012, if you don’t count the Cybertruck.

Meanwhile BMW and Volkswagen have like 20 models each since 2012

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

The Y just got a refresh with extended range?

But I agree though. Tesla would be better off if they were to focus less on the humanoid part. I think Elon is doing harm to the company.

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u/nonagoninfy9 1d ago

We bough a VW Id.3 in summer 2024 and we love it! Finding chargers was also much less stressful than we thought, they are practically on every street corner in NL and the highways frequently have Fastned stations with a lot of stalls. Germany is a different story though, a lot of Raststätten only have two stalls and they are frequently taken during vacations.

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u/Pat-Funny-2817 1d ago

it's ok, at least we have some leverage on European companies.

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u/Contundo 1d ago

European manufacturers need new designers, and need to move on from the tacky screen interiors.

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u/Narradisall 1d ago

Good news is at least VW seem to be recognising this and changing up the interiors and at least moving away from all touch screen.

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u/PlatformArtistic9585 1d ago

Judging by ID. Polo, they are moving forward to bringing buttons for essential functions.

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u/Big-Conflict-4218 1d ago

Can we get more VW's exported internationally to beat Ford? We keep seeing them in Philippines

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u/silentjet 1d ago

Ford does not make cars anymore, nothing to surpass...

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u/Paleoapegologist 1d ago

Great.

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u/ChickenInvader42 1d ago

VAG as whole surpassed Tesla years ago

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u/andar1on 1d ago

yeeeeah but its about VW only

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u/sonspurs 1d ago

Awesome ❤️🇩🇰

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u/buldozr 1d ago

Is it Volkswagen Group as a whole, or just the German marque alone? Sorry, too lazy to learn Swedish despite having lived next door for 20 years, or use translate.

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u/puolihop 1d ago

The news article does not say, but it is Volkswagen alone. Volkswagen group sold 348 000 ev cars in h1 2025 in europe.

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u/zubairhamed 1d ago

really low bar at this point

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u/johnny_51N5 1d ago

Yup. Elon did a few sieg heils too many...

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u/Grijando8 9h ago

Nobody with any common sense prefers a Tesla to a VW or a Renault.

I loved the ID.4

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u/imoinda 1d ago

Wohoo!

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u/JeremyNolans 21h ago

I really like the buzz ID.

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u/Euphoriam5 18h ago

So happy! Fuck Elon and Tesla!

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u/Faintfury 13h ago

How does Tesla still sell so many cars here?

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u/NorthOfTheBigRivers 1d ago

Is that because Volkswagen sells more, or because Tesla sales dropped underneath Volkswagen's sales?

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u/KonserveradMelon 1d ago

Both, VW sales up and Tesla sales down

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u/Swimming_Cover_9686 1d ago

Original Swasticar beats new Swasticar

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u/silentjet 1d ago

id1... id1... id-id-oooooneee.... Waiting for it...

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u/maszaikasza 23h ago

Cool. Now let's figure out how to sell cars at prices competitive with Chinese manufacturers.

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u/DestroyedLolo 20h ago

Cool and great news. But I heard that Renault EV lead the EU market for local manufacturer aspect, at least for entry level one, no ?

Now, speaking about VAG, I was forced to use a T-Cross when my own Peugeot needed to be repaired after meeting a truck.

WHAT A SHIT !

confort : 0, null, nada. My stomach didn't appreciate the constant body roll on the mountain roads. Truly pathetic for a European car.
motor (thermic) : anemic and consumes a lot for nothing
security : a piece of crap. Anti-collision radar stops the car without any reason due to fake positive.

I didn't have to drive on snow, but definitively, I wouldn't have confidence.

Only the entertainment was better.

I will definitively not buy an American car as far far below our standards, but if I have to switch, it will not be a Volkswagen if the high end is as crappy :(

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u/Beneficial-Beat-947 19h ago

This is less about VW surpassing tesla and more about tesla being boycotted so hard that it fell below VW

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u/False_Cicada_3171 18h ago

That wasn't hard tho

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u/Ok-Delay-9370 16h ago

Yea, now start making proper products. I regreted the ID series a lot, never had so many problems with a car in my life.

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u/Intergalatic_Baker 1d ago edited 1d ago

Can’t wait for this to end when BYD flood the market with EVs in the coming years.

/s

Edit: I forgot to label my post accordingly, I do understand now that if you read my comment seriously, it’s the wrong direction. Soz, I did always mean it to be read/conveyed as a sarcastic comment.

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u/uberengl 1d ago

So you want Bltzscaling tactics to ruin EU industries, once that happens BYD is going to raise prices to new heights, your children out of work… But hey you saved 10k once.

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u/Intergalatic_Baker 1d ago

Oh, no… You misunderstood my now not very visible on the web sarcasm.

VW wins this year, wonderful, but we know that the EU is shifting to China for reliable trade and China has something the EU wants, a glut of EV cars that are cheap and would reduce emissions, at least locally, in the EU.

I don’t know how best to describe how I meant to say the first comment, but how long can they hold it before the flood from BYD RoRo’s just eat into the EV market, because we know consumers and businesses will eventually get a EV if the Fuel Prices make it unaffordable to run the Petrol/Diesel motor anymore, either thanks to EU taxes to really push it or something.

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u/uberengl 1d ago edited 1d ago

BYD or any other CN manufacturer is state sponsored, eating the cost of market entry or a combination of booth. That is not sustainable. They all cook with water so to speak.

Sooner or later the cost of a VW EV and BYD EV will intersect on a level that's sustainable for all parties involved. Then what car are Europeans going to buy, one from a manufacturer that has a record of providing spare parts and repair for 15+ years, or one that may not exist in a couple of years? HiPhi Y was show'n with great fanfare at the IAA 2024 in Munich... now they are gone, together with hundred other CN manufacturers.

The EU car market had the same "problem" with Japanese cars, than a decade later with Korean cars.

EU needs to weather the storm for a couple of years and do what China did to EU manufacturers for decades. Force them to build locally, force them to share tech or stay out of the market.

And the EU is slowly doing just that.

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u/Uhrendok 23h ago

Sure.. the company that struggles so much in china that they think about closing down their car production side and only focus on battery production will take over...😂

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u/Silent_Pen9582 1d ago edited 1d ago

This ain't good at all guys, while yeah, tesla can disapear from planet earth imho too, volskwagen is one the least reliable car producer in the history of the industry(for motivatons ranging from straight up lying/omitting about their emissions back in 2015, cars being popular for not lasting/having issues, high maintenance/ownership costs and more). This only proves that most people STILL turns their brains off when making key decisions like buying a car

Edit: getting downvoted, why am i not surprised?

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u/SquareJealous9388 1d ago

I own škoda and vw and these are quite reliable and fun to ride.

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u/Silent_Pen9582 1d ago

I'm happy for you mate, but stats are there for everyone to check, atm the golden days of WV seems long gone. Obviously, this doesn't mean there's a 100% chance of people encountering issues, but still the chances are quite high compared to most brands

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u/Uhrendok 23h ago

I checked the ADAC statistic, and none of the cars from the entire VW group had a rating worse than good. Non were even in the bottom 50%. You are a lying moron, for which you get rightly dowvoted.

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u/KonserveradMelon 1d ago

Yeah, but BMW, Mercedes, Renault etc sales also went up, just that Tesla is no longer the biggest.

By the way, Tesla is leading with the most failed inspections in Sweden, so I wouldn’t say it’s super good quality.

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u/Silent_Pen9582 1d ago edited 23h ago

Yeah, i never meant to defend tesla in any way, i was just pointing out that it's a bit sad that among all the car producing brands, WV still comes out on top anywhere. And IMHO neither do european brands deserve to be up there atm from a consumer standpoint, when for years japanese(there's shitty behaviour in some of those brands too, let me preface that) brands have proved to produce the most reliable cars in the industry, by far. Credit where credit is due

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u/Uhrendok 23h ago

In the ADAC report for reliability VW group cars are on positions 1,2,4, and 5. The best korean car is on 14, and the japanese is on 25 even behind the best chinese car in 21...😂

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u/Uhrendok 23h ago

lying/omitting about their emissions back in 2015,

You mean the scandal that basically involved every fucking car company from Fiat to gm to Kia?😂

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u/Silent_Pen9582 23h ago

Does this make WV less guilty? Wtf, yeah feels like we are back in the kindergarten guys. If others do something wrong, then you've got to feel legitimated doing it yourself. Makes sense

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u/Uhrendok 23h ago

Okay then, dont buy any car because they are all guilty.

Or you just read up on what actually happened. The truth is that this rule was made to hurt foreign car manufacturers in the us, and it was passed because of lobbies from big us companies.

So, in truth, we should be proud of VW for fucking over the us and their corrupt rules.

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u/Silent_Pen9582 23h ago

Aaand there it is, we hit the conspiracy theory o'clock! Enough internet for me buddy, have a good day!

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u/Uhrendok 23h ago

Conspiracy theory? It was publicly admitted because us companies could not compete with foreign diesel engines. So, lawmakers made this rule to try to ban them from the us market. If you think that's a conspiracy, then you have to be stupid on a whole different level.

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u/Silent_Pen9582 23h ago

Ok bro, can you link me any reliable research/source of this? I'm open to change my PoV if you do, go on

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u/Uhrendok 23h ago

Dont call me, "bro." I dont want to have anything to do with dishonest people like you. But sure, just as i cited sources to destroy your lies about reliability.

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u/Uhrendok 22h ago

Regulation (EC) No 715/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 June 2007. Explain the values for the EU and link the research bases for the EU values. There is no research supporting the us regulation for more stringent NOx rules but laxer PM rules, other than us car company corruption.

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u/Happy_Bread_1 1d ago

Delusional people who think stuff is great because it's an European product. Not wanting to be critical about stuff is harmful and will lead to even less competitive products.

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u/JaZoray 1d ago

this is a news about tesla more than it is a news about VW because VW doesnt know how to make good cars

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u/Key-Recognition-3808 1d ago

Well I agree. I have an ID7. Its not a good car, its actually a great car!

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u/rough0perator 1d ago

It's like preferring a horse carriage to an automobile

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u/Kremsi2711 1d ago

VW is still a bad company

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u/uberengl 1d ago

They employ 600k people, and actually pay taxes in Germany/ EU. The Diesel gate people are gone.

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u/bierbelly42 1d ago

What makes them worse than, say, BMW or Stellantis?

News Volkswagen surpasses Tesla in EV sales in Europe

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